There'll be plenty in the coming weeks about Greg Olsen and Devin Hester bringing new dimensions of speed to the offense. There'll be plenty about the battle for the two starting safety spots. Today. Kyle Orton.
John Mullin writes a terrific piece in today's Trib. Apparently, Orton has come to camp with a stronger arm and more intimidating physique. Ron Turner has called him lightyears better than he was as a ten-game winner (remember that?) two years ago. According to Mullin, there are two questions:
Can Orton emerge from the preseason as the No. 2 quarterback ahead of Brian Griese? And in the event that Rex Grossman does not work out, can Orton possibly play his way into becoming the franchise quarterback of the Bears' future? The answer to both is ... yes.
Not gonna lie...I'm interested. All of a sudden, the first preseason game looms not only as a showcase for the development of Rex Grossman but also for the re-invention of his fallen predecessor. Kyle Orton has the next month plus to establish himself as the the quarterback-in-the-wings and I'd be more than happy to see it happen.
#2 DTB said . . .#1 Baby
Well at the time when we drafted him he was considered a steal.Maybe now we can see if he finally got it.Plus he'd be alot cheaper than Greasy.August 1, 2007
#3 Pissed off said . . .Release the Greise... Free up some money for next year. From what I've been reading Greise has looked like shit. Leak can run the scout team. I'm fully confident in Orton, have been since his multiple Grossman-esque performances in 'o5. Bottom line we'll have two young QB's that know how to win in the NFL.
August 1, 2007
#4 Phil from SATX said . . .Oh my GOD! I cant believe we're even talking about this....I just threw up in my mouth. Its Kyle Orton, If you think he's gonna be the franchise guy, you're all dreaming. Rex is miles better, thats why he's starting, not Grizzly Adams. I am not worried one bit but I just cant believe people are hopping on the "Kyle for QB" bandwagon. Typical Chicago, fair weather fan QB hate controversey...and after we just went to the Super Bowl with Rex and more importantly...BEFORE THE SEASON EVEN STARTS! Typical! This story written by Mullin is very "Mariottiesque." He's catering to the fair weather fan who wants to hear some controversey, and its especially interesting when its about the QB in Chicago. Just have to laugh at this one, I think I'll send Mullin a hate e-mail now and tell him how stupid he is for suggesting such a thing. If Orton is the starting QB next year.....I dont know what I'll do.
August 1, 2007
#5 jdawg said . . .Hey PO'd, I think you're getting exercised over nothing. The point of the piece was not Kyle for QB - it was that he's going to try to earn the #2 spot and Mullin thinks he can both do that and potentially be a starting QB in this league. Whether he's right or not...? To me the thing that struck me from that article is how Griese has looked shitty. That makes it sound like a pretty big waste of $5MM per... and makes me feel foolish for thinking last year that he could be any answer. (I know you never thought so PO'd, so hat's off).
If you want to get excited, read Haugh's article from yesterday about Rex throwing balls that make the other 2 look like they belong at junior prep...
IT'S ALL HAPPENING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Rex!
August 1, 2007
#6 Pissed off said . . .yeah -- don't get your panties in a knot. If Orton's good enough maybe they can waive Greise. Does anybody know what type of cap hit, if any, the Bears would take?
Shit, waiving Greise could free up some money to sign Grossman and Berrian, if the Bears so desire.
August 1, 2007
#7 Phil from SATX said . . .I'm chilled, I know what your saying Phil. But he did say in the article that Orton could be the next Bears franchise QB did he not?? Not that he could be a starting QB in this league, but a starting QB for the Bears. I dont ever want to see Kyle under center unless Rex is hurt.
August 1, 2007
#8 Da Coach said . . .You bring up an interesting point jdawg. Let's imagine that, unlike last year's preseason, both Rex and da bears start out hot - which I'm kind of thinking will be hard to avoid, as good and deep as I think this team is right now.
How fast does BT work at an extension for Rex - after 1 regular season game, 3 games, what? Because if he shows real improvement on game management and blitz avoidance coupled with the same passing wizardry, I can't help but think they make it a VERY early priority to save some money and lock him up.
Obviously it's early to be talking like this but I can't help but get excited about what I am hearing out of camp. Don't worry PO'd, Kyle ain't taking over this team any time soon - and if he does (for any reason except a Rex injury) it will only signify a lost season. Which ain't happening. (the ain'ts added for empasis - ed.)
August 1, 2007
#9 Rancid said . . .PO'd not worry Mullin did state that "in the event Grossman would not work out could Orton become the franchise qb?" I really do not think that the story was written to garner attention for Orton to become the starter.
I do like the idea of Orton playing his way into the backup role of Grossman. I agree with the other posters who mentioned why not cut Griese then and save some cap space for next year and intriguing option for sure.
August 1, 2007
#10 Phil from SATX said . . .I think his point is that Orton can beat Greasy Greise, and then IF Grossman flops, he could potentially step into the void. PO'd, your opinion is that Grossman will never flop. Therefore, nothing to worry about. I would like to see Greise gone and Leak signed. Greise has looked like garbage and I'd rather have a younger guy for less $, especially if he's going to be behind Orton anyway.
August 1, 2007
#11 Phil from SATX said . . .Let's also remember that Griese was really an insurance policy against INJURY to Grossman - did last season prove to the BT that he can be durable? If so, then it makes more and more sense that Griese is jettison-able.
August 1, 2007
#12 jdawg said . . .How about a trade to some of these franchises that have no one and who might consider even a crappy veteran QB a godsend? Vikings and Atlanta come to mind...
August 1, 2007
#13 Rob C. said . . .whoa whoa whoa
Word is that Leak has an arm like a wet noodle. I do not want him under center at any time during the regular season.
If we dump Griese I'm sure there's another insurance policy QB out there.
August 1, 2007
#14 JB said . . .Orton's rookie stats 2 years ago were up there with some of the best rookies in league history. It wasn't pretty, but he was told not to throw interceptions and let the Bears D win the game.
August 1, 2007
#15 mikebdot said . . .I"m with PO'd on the Rex thing ( of course), but like everyone is saying, this is solely about orton vs griese. For what it's worth, I'm an Iowa Hawkeye fan, so I watch a lot of Big Ten football. Orton was basically in the lead for the Heisman most of the year until he unraveled. He's got a great arm, and all he needed was to get over himself and put in the time to clean up a lot of the mechanical issues that he has (learning that there is more to playing NFL QB than throwing a 50 yard go route). If Turner and company are saying that he had a great offseason and has come in determined to move up in the depth chart, and at the same time, it sounds like greise isn't into putting in the time to be a good backup, then if Orton moves to number two, more power to him.
However, no quarterback on the roster is in the same league as Rex, who can light up the scoreboard. So, let's just move on past this silliness of Kyle Orton for QB and get to more important issues.
August 1, 2007
#16 FlamingHotNacho958 said . . .Rob C.: You are absolutely wrong on Kyle Orton's stats. He was the worst QB in the league by QB rating. Period. As in, not better than anyone else. See for yourself:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=pass&season=2&year=2005
August 1, 2007
#17 Al in WI said . . .Long time reader, first time umm.. er.. poster? Anyhoo, Not to get off topic about that lovable QB, Capt. Neckbeard, but I just read a nice little piece by one of the naysayers of the Eastern Sports Propaganda Network, the professor John Clayton, who finally seems to have jumped on board.
Kind of refreshing to see them give Grossman some slack by talking about what Chi-sports and Bears.com, not to mention here, have said all along. Thanks for the fun commentary and such.
August 1, 2007
#18 Rob C. said . . .Kyle Orton is a career backup who has the ability to be a part-time starter. I think that is what Mullin meant in his article, and other camp observers have brought this up as well. Griese is the highest paid Qb on the roster right now, and it would clear some space to dump him-next offseason.
I think that will be the plan, it doesn't hurt to have a vet around just in case Rex misses a stretch of games.
But I do enjoy the fact that this years qb controversy surounds the #2 spot.August 1, 2007
#19 said . . .I was referring to other Q.B. rookies historically, not to veterans that year.
August 1, 2007
#20 Pissed off said . . .A quick salute to McMahon, the best Bears Q.B. in 50 years
Most Consecutive Reg-Season Wins as Starting QB – Since ’70
Jim McMahon, 1984-1987 Chi 22
Tom Brady, 2003-2004 NE 18
Ben Roethlisberger, 2004-2005 Pit 15
Dan Marino, 1983-1984 Mia 14
Joe Montana, 1989-1990 SF 14
August 1, 2007
#21 Rob C. said . . .Well what Mullin said and meant are two different things. He's an idiot if he thinks Neckbeard can be the franchise QB....thats what he said....wether he meant something else or not. Rob C. you are completely wrong as mike said. Kyle threw 13 pics to 9 TDs. And you said they asked him not to throw INTs.n Funny he still threw 4 more of those than TDs. Anyway, whatever, Mullin is an idiot and I'm not worried cux in no shape or form will Orton see the field unless Rex gets hurt. And I'm OK with having Kyle be the #2 if he proves he's better than Griese, then we can dump him and save $ for people who actually play.
August 1, 2007
#22 mikebdot said . . .Besides Dan Marino, all rookie q.b.'s have a horrible first season
All those elements aside, Manning went 3-13, threw 28 interceptions and completed 56.7 percent of his passes. After that tough rookie season, Manning evolved into one of the best quarterbacks in the game.
August 1, 2007
#23 mikebdot said . . .Rob C.: Once again, your assertion is wrong on it's face. Nearly every QB who is above him on that list who is a veteran had a better rookie QB rating. Look at the data man.
When you say "stats" perhaps you meant "wins", but I honestly can't understand how you can argue that his "stats" were better than any rookie QB historically. If you meant "wins", sure, that's great, but he was absolutely awful. The reason he didn't throw more interceptions was because he didn't even throw the ball in the GENERAL AREA of the players, hence the ball wasn't picked off. And 13 INT vs 9 TD says nothing good about a QB that played the majority of 15 games.
That was a pretty damn painful year to watch Bears football, even if we were winning.
August 1, 2007
#24 Keith said . . .I can't fucking believe I just read this. The word "sweep" appears in this article...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp07/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2956884
Praise Halas!
August 1, 2007
#25 Pissed off said . . .I know Orton's stats weren't the best but he won games. Winning 11 games as a rookie is pretty good. I don't know any other rookie quarterback that has won that many games. He deserves the number 2 spot.
Keith
college football newsAugust 1, 2007
#26 mikebdot said . . .Rob C stop trying, quit while your ahead.....er...behind. Seriously just stop or mike will have to keep knocking you down.
Keith I cant believe you said that, I cant. Are you completely insane? I could have won 11 games for the Bears that year with that D. I have no skills at the sport as I didnt play at any level (besides junior high) and I can hand the ball off or hit a man for a 5 yard out. Its all about the defense. Manning would have won 15 or all 16 games as a rookie with the Bears D that year. Orton sucks , please stop talking. Stick to college football. (god I hope you cover that better than the NFL)
Pissed Off
No Designation Whatsoever But I still know more than Keith
...........................................................
August 1, 2007
#27 Rancid said . . .Keith: Orton did not win games, he simply didn't lose them. They didn't call plays with receivers running routes downfield, they ran the ball and threw short passes that were hardly ever completed. The defense won the games. I mean, how can you look at this and do anything but cringe?:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?statsId=7282&year=2005
We scored over 20 points twice with him at QB. We did it 11 times last year with Grossman. Twice in the playoffs (once it was required to win the game).
August 1, 2007
#28 Phil from SATX said . . .I believe Rex is by far the best QB on the roster and that barring an injury Orton will never, ever challenge for the #1 spot. However, those who often defend Rex based on the fact that last year was his first full season should be careful about trashing Orton for his performance during his actual rookie season. He had just gotten to Chicago, he learned the system on the job, and had an extremely controlled environment concerning play-calling. I don't honestly think that we can know that much about him from his rookie season. The wins he got aren't enough to praise him and the lousy stats aren't enough to write him off. In the end he's a Bear. As long he is I won't crap on him until he gives me good reason to. I am excited about an improved Kyle Orton in the #2 spot.
August 1, 2007
#29 DTB said . . .Okay, I am now totally amazed after reading that article by John Clayton. First for the content; second for the fact that such an article exists outside of safe Bear havens like the Trib. Is this the year that we will not only get wins but some public love as well? With respect to Rex, we have to remember that there may have never been a more piled-on player than our fearful leader last year in history of football, if not all of sports. And he survived, and did so well enough to get to the SB.
I am imagining a year where he has improved enough to change public opinion for good and thus can do his job in relative peace without having to wrestle the entire country and his inner demons every week.
No this isn't an apology to Grossman, he brought much of it on himself and he was probably too arrogant last year when things were going well - and hopefully the coming success this year will be handled much better than it would have if he hadn't gone through the trials by fire last year.
But I think he's going to get the chance to see how he handles adulation this year, because it is coming.
Re: Kyle Orton - Gotta agree with MikeD, that was an incredible painful season to watch whenever the offense was on the field. I'm not sure I've ever seen a more inaccurate arm than his in a starting QB (of course as soon as I write these words the names Kordell Stewart and Chad Hutchison come to mind). I distinctly remember watching balls sail 15 feet over receivers heads, and if his job was to hit a wide open guy in the flat, chances were at least 50-50 he'd blow the pass. Kyle's rookie season? No thank you.
August 1, 2007
#30 Decatur Staleys #7 said . . .News Flash: Orton runs the two's yesterday. Griese's time with the Bears is running out.
August 1, 2007
#31 Decatur Staleys #7 said . . .Phil I agree about trying to find anything written about the Bears that isn't a slam piece but here's another one.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/08/01/bears.postcard/index.html
Maybe these guys might get it right with who gets the prasies.
I'm sure by next week they'll go back to sleep an write the same ol pieces they normally write.But with the 2 articles an Walker signing,I'm doing nothing but grinning.
August 2, 2007
#32 mikebdot said . . .Phil I agree about trying to find anything written about the Bears that isn't a slam piece but here's another one.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/08/01/bears.postcard/index.html
Maybe these guys might get it right with who gets the prasies.
I'm sure by next week they'll go back to sleep an write the same ol pieces they normally write.But with the 2 articles an Walker signing,I'm doing nothing but grinning.
August 2, 2007
#33 Midway Monster said . . .Holy crap. Insight of the night for PO'd. You know how you always say that we can't expect Rex Grossman to be Joe Montana or Peyton Manning overnight? Well, I think I would be perfectly happy if he became Troy Aikman. He already has a head start since he wasn't absolutely awful his first full year starting.
Check out Aikman's stats for his career:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pDYemUZJNH0bf4QZcMfz8Rw
Are those really hall of fame numbers? An 81 career QB rating? Wow. I had no idea. He had 0 4000 yard years. He didn't even get to 3500.
August 2, 2007
#34 Pissed off said . . .Preseason...preseason... z-z-z-z-z.
To me preseason is nothing more than glorified practice. I could never get excited about it (even when I used to play). What I look for is the coordination of the defense (if we're goona have gaping holes, lets see em now) and the timing of the offense (which is really game food for film sessions). Of course if you totally f&%k up, its great to see who need to be cut.
I guess about the 2nd or 3rd game - maybe - they play a quarter seriously. So for the fan, its just a time to pull out the jerseys, get the game beers out, and get that sofa in shape - all for the real season.
--Midway--
August 2, 2007
#35 mikebdot said . . .Hey Rancid you idea is very flawed. Orton was super protected in his first full season (rookie), Rex was not. Rex was allowed to be a gunslinger last year and make plays and take some risks. Orton was not allowed that freedom and if he were his stats would probably be something like 10-12 TDs and 25 INTs. He's not as good as Rex nor will he ever be, nuff said.
I just feel like I need to reiterate that the fair weather fan will still hate Rex becuase he/she will not know the full Rex and his good games. As soon as Rex turns in a sub-par performance, which will happen, it happens to every QB thru the year at least once, they will be on the hate-wagon once again. So I dont care what they say now, even if they are positive.
Agreed on the preseason, boring, I do like it for the chance to see the 2nd and 3rd string guys though. I pride myself on knowing the entire 53 man roster throughout the season and knowing who everyone is when they come in.
August 2, 2007
#36 Marvin Frisbie said . . .I would also like to reiterate that if Rex has 2 or 3 terrible (not just bad, but verifiably terrible) games in the first half of the season, I will lose the confidence I have in him once again. I think he can turn it around, but you can only give a guy so many chances to not occasionally suck. If he throws 0 TDs and 3 INTs in more than 3 games this year, especially by game 8, I will lobby to draft someone else or sign someone else in free agency following the season. It will depend a lot on his performance. If you can't use someone's performance to say "hey, this guy is never going to win us a Super Bowl" and not be labeled a "fair weather fan" I'm not quite sure I understand the meaning of the phrase "fair weather fan". I always thought a fair weather fan was someone that pulled out their Bears cap when we actually managed to make the playoffs.
August 2, 2007
#37 Marvin Frisbie said . . .I agree with the guy praising Orton. If he is stronger, he will compete for Quarterback; as #1, unless Lovie is still in love with Rex. I have never saw a guy who did not control his emotions be able to control a team. I do not think Rex will ever make a good, Consistent, Quarterback. He will fall apart when constantly rushed. Orton proved he was cool headed. And he got ten wins, as a rookie. Sure Rex took us to the end of the season, and the Biggie Bowl. But his emotions screwed up the team in the BIG ONE . I do not think Rex will be a money quarterback. too emotional. Marvin Frisbie. I've been wrong before, but not now. Fris
August 2, 2007
#38 Marvin Frisbie said . . .I may have something to say after I get my butt kicked for my comments today. Marvin Frisbie; Thanx for the read; Fris,.
August 2, 2007
#39 Al in WI said . . .I may have something to say after I get my butt kicked for my comments today. Marvin Frisbie; Thanx for the read; Fris,.
August 2, 2007
#40 Pissed off said . . .The main problem with Kyle Orton in 2005 was that he got worse as the season went on. He wasn't up and down like most first year starters, including Rex, he was just straight down.
That said, I think he has some potential as a backup for the team because he does have a strong arm and some leadership abilities.
One of my favorite moments of that year was when after he was terrible in the first half versus Atlanta. Rex came in to the roar of the crowd to bring life to the offense and score a TD.August 2, 2007
#41 Al in WI said . . .My definition of fair weather is the same as yours mike but I would add to it those who hate Rex cuz its the popular opinion. Its a great conversation starter (though it gives no credibility to that person in my mind). That includes those who bash Rex cuz he has one or two bad games during the year while having 14 other good games. Its those who are never happy with the current QB and are always calling for the starters head, even when its unwarranted like right now, before the season has even STARTED.
To prove my point, see post #36. Thanks Marvin for the perfect example.
August 2, 2007
#42 mikebdot said . . .Breaking News: Bears Trade Chris Harris to Carolina for undisclosed pick. Not really a fan of this move........
August 2, 2007
#43 Pissed off said . . .PO'd: Ok, good deal, I thought it was a slight at me...because it's all about me (/sarcasm). I'm so paranoid sometimes. In any event, you do feel it is reasonable that if Rex is TERRIBLE (rather than just "bad", like a 60ish rating would be bad, but TERRIBLE to me is 0 TD, 3 INT+ and
He had 4 TERRIBLE games last year (per my own definition), not 2. If we have to play three playoff games the "TERRIBLE" will most likely show up in one of them (70% chance actually). If he only has 2 or 3 all year, that's definitely improvement. If he has over 3500 YDS and 25 TDs I think we have something special. Seriously. I honestly think if he fixes all his shit he could be our dynasty QB.
Actually, let's look at it like this, let's say Grossman had the exact same year this year (and we went to the SB and lost), should we sign him to another contract?
August 2, 2007
#44 mikebdot said . . .Without watching the whole season and his footwork, schematics etc I would say yeah, re-sign him. But you cant do that without seeing how everything plays out first.
Mike I think your secretly a Rex-hater. Maybe you dont even know it yet. I'm getting that impression. I hope he doesnt have 4 terrible games either. I think he will have a couple bad ones, I dont know where you got that I said he two last year, I think it was four. But God when he has that first one, it'll be "same old Rex" in the papers. And I DONT CARE. Lovie will keep sending out the right guy....Rex.....and it doesnt matter one damn bit what anyone else thinks.
August 2, 2007
#45 Pissed off said . . .PO'd: I'm only a Rex Hater if it turns out he sucks it up this year. If not, I'm not. It doesn't make me a fair weather fan, it makes me a reasonable person. If he plays well and his footwork is better and he doesn't have "terrible" games, then how is a reasonable person to argue he shouldn't get a contract?
Comment #40 "one or two bad games and 14 good ones". Also, the Minnesota game was marginal, but he threw a TD pass so it didn't fit my definition of "TERRIBLE", even though his rating was awful.
August 2, 2007
#46 Lazarz said . . .I'm not saying your fair weather, if he sucks then yeah I dont give him a contract. I guess it boils down to the definition of "suck". My definition is a season worse than last year. We went to the super bowl. If he's just a hair better than he was last year, I say sign him. Again, we went to the super bowl LAST YEAR. The hair better I'm talking about is mainly with his footwork, throwing wildly off his backfoot hurt us and thats when he threw pics.
Regarding your comment about comment #40, the 2 bad games and 14 good ones are referring to what he's going to do this year, not last year......It was predicting what he'll do this year and what people will say this year. I guess I didnt make that clear.
August 3, 2007
#47 Marvin E. Frisbie said . . .Hail, Hail to old Purdue
All hail to our old gold and black...August 4, 2007
#48 Marvin E. Frisbie said . . .I called the shots on Orton in August 2, 2007. He is the starting quarterback. and doing the job.
Fris. October 6, 2008October 7, 2008
I called the shots on Orton in August 2, 2007. He is the starting quarterback. and doing the job.
Fris.October 7, 2008
Here at DaBearsBlog, you are free to kill us or the Bears as you so wish. You are not free, however, to be an asshole. So if you spew racism or ill-meaning foul language (cursing about football is just fine) or anything of that ilk, your comments ain't gonna last long, jerk.