There will be eight teams playing football next weekend. Eight teams that don’t include the fallen-from-grace Chicago Bears. Each of those 8 teams offers a lesson for an organization that can not afford to lose more than it wins in 2008. We’ll start from the bottom up.
NEW YORK GIANTS
You win football games on the line of scrimmage. The Giants have arguably the best defensive front four in the game and their o-line is the unsung hero of their team, leading a terrific running game and giving Eli tons of time to throw the ball to the other team. They lost center Shaun O’Hara to injury but had the depth not to miss a beat.
SAN DIEGO CHARGERS
You can always get better. As the Chargers seemed to be limping their way to a division title, GM A.J. Smith made the move of the regular season: acquiring Chris Chambers. After Antonio Gates’ injury Sunday, Chambers showed he’s still a star. They Charges moving on to Indianapolis Sunday had a lot to do with that movie.
SEATTLE SEAHAWKS
Sometimes you have to say good-bye. The Seahawks let Steve Hutchinson go in a much-ballyhooed contract debate with the Minnesota Vikings. They weren’t happy about it then but results are results. They haven’t missed the playoffs since and they’ve been able to add Peterson, Kerney and Branch with that money. I’m picking them to win in Green Bay.
JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS
You need two solid running backs to be a running football team. Then again, we had already learned this lesson, hadn’t we? When did we forget it?
GREEN BAY PACKERS
Great quarterbacks are still greats quarterback…
DALLAS COWBOYS
...and sometimes you have to grow great quarterbacks.
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS
The Cover-2’s success relies on a great safety. Indianapolis has Bob Sanders to prevent big plays in both the run and pass games. The Bears can blame whoever they want for their defensive collapses (Adam Archuleta anyone?) but if they don’t sure up the safety spot, they’ll face the same fate in 2008.
NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Not winning it all is not winning it all. Faced with the devastation of losing the (gasp!) AFC Championship game, the Pats went out and created the best receiving corps in football from scratch. Why? Because they didn’t have good enough receivers last year to win it all. The Bears also didn’t win it all. Where did they upgrade?
#2 Max said . . .I'm a long time die-hard and a newcomer to this site, but I like what you guys are doing here. I've been getting some of the info and updates (ie. the salary cap situation) that I haven't been able to find anywhere else.
With regards to this I totally agree about the Giants winning both sides of the line. They pretty much shut down a solid Bucs defensive front and let Eli win that game, and the D-line reminds me of last year's Bears (when Anderson WASN'T starting and was a phenomenal pass rusher). And it's amazing what a somewhat overlooked trade in Chambers to San Diego did for that team....were we aware he was available? Did we care? Cause I feel he would have fit pretty well here.
You are dead on about the Jags and their 2-headed running attack. Again, reminds me of last year.
Mike Brown is our Bob Sanders if he can stay healthy...and I know that Angelo "can't count on him" but we all know he's worth it to try cause he's the best we've had at safety in 10 years and better than anything we can find in the offseason.
Lets just hope that the front-office folk are taking note of the winning programs and trying to imitate them in some way. We were doing great creating our own dynasty until someone decided that everything we were doing right needed to be changed.
And I don't know about anybody else but I'm rooting for the Bears to win the Super Bowl this year, even if we're not in the playoffs. DA BEARS.
January 7, 2008
#3 AfroCelt said . . .We cant grow great quarterbacks. . . .
January 7, 2008
#4 Mike said . . .Best post in the last month, Jeff.
January 7, 2008
#5 JB said . . .For what it is worth department....
Talk in Miami is that Bill Parcells and his new GM are likely to have interest in Rex Grossman. The rebuilding program in Miami will start in the trenches and on defense. Grossman is viewed as an "interesting risk" and somebody, at a minimum, who can bridge the gap until a long-term solution at QB is determined.
This adds fuel to my opinion that Grossman is gone. He is going to have other opportunities available that will likely trump the option of coming back to Chicago on an incentive-laden deal where the risk is all in his court. And in a place that has been a five year nightmare for the guy.
And please, for the love of God, no more talk about Mike Brown. The guy has been on the shelf for four consecutive seasons. And if you heard Jerry Angelo' press conference, then you know that Brown is months away from recovery from his latest injury and the Bears don't intend on counting him in their 2008 plans. Comparing Mike Brown to Bob Saunders is idiotic. Mike Brown might have been the greatest thing at safety, but fact is injuries have completely sabotaged his career. Saunders is a perennial All-Pro safety and owner of a Super Bowl ring while Brown is perennial rehabilitation patient.
January 7, 2008
#6 RandomName said . . .Mike...who the hell is Bob Saunders? Is he announcing this weekends game?
We will compare Mike Brown to Bob Sanders all we want because we remember what this defense was like with a healthy mike brown. Yes, the guy has had an incredibly bad string of luck...but he's still the soul of that defense until he is no longer under contract with this organization. We may not be able to count on him, but if we allow a chance and a roster spot for him on the off-chance he can resurrect his career...i'd be all for it.
btw...i think we're pretty clear on the grossman situation...i'm not sure there are a lot of people even on here that believe he'll be back...i think a lot of people are saying they'd like to resign him. i just don't think it'll be an option.
on jeff's post...well done. i think the jacksonville thought hits home the hardest.
January 7, 2008
#7 Phil from SATX said . . .Ok I'm gonna talk more about the bears, who did really poorly in 2007 and didn't make the playoffs but still was Kinda in it. What does that say about the NFC?
I think the bears are where it's at for 2008, but if by chance they made it to the 2007 playoffs i don't think they were gonna do much.
I'm really happy with the team the bears are. Adrian Peterson averaging 5 yrds per carry, who would've thought? that beats that other guy who's name is fading fast...oh yeh Benson.
Garrett Wolfe is a legit NFL player from what i can see, just don't have him block.
Brenden A (yeah I'm to lazy to search for the spelling) is a keeper.
Briggs or Berrian, we'll probably keep only one.
Mushin had better put some double side tape on his gloves*wink*. better work on catching on the off season or whenever, just drop it less.
Hester up and coming , the real reason we watch sports is this type of player, some one who's just dominate in his position. a tiger woods, a randy moss, a tom Brady, a jerry rice ,Walter Payton. i'll stop cause you get the point. I'm waiting to see him break the all time return record in 2008 and catch double digits in terms of receptions. The boy is just BAD.
Urlacher STILL is good, he must've went to a back specialist before those last two weeks cause he as playing like he forgot what pains means. he's still got 3 or 4 years in him.
well Vasher and the groin, he's good and had a chance to re-prove that with the comeback interception.
Mike brown, sorry bro wish you were injury free cause you are a dynamic football player. Only Mike brown knows if he'll have another chance in the NFL . It's just looking very doubtful.
January 7, 2008
#8 Duff Diggler said . . .Jeff, you are hitting it hard in the new year. Great, great post.
The one that hit me was the last one. Patriots are very aggressive about improving where they lack. The Bears felt that internal player improvement would suffice, while losing a very instrumental part of the offense - i.e. going backwards.
Let's hope this year changes their mind about this and makes them more active in changing their roster - but judging from this coaching staff's previous moves, I'm not holding my breath in that department.
I will also add to the Cowboys post, QB's don't have to be heralded or come from big schools. Don't go the expected route just because everyone says to do it.
I was listening on the radio this morning and heard discussion about how all the winning teams had bigtime points, and losing teams could not score points (Titans, Bucs). It makes me more convinced than ever that Grossman is key in 2008. Maybe it changes my mind a bit on Berrian as well, but it underscores how important a long strike and accurate performer like Grossman is to us. (Realize that when he's throwing INTs he's not so accurate, but you know what I mean).
Orton DOES manage the game well, just enough to get into the playoffs given our ST and (hopefully) D but not enough to score bunches of points in the playoffs.
Spend some money on Rex. Also, Mike Brown is a singular enough talent that he's worth keeping, as long as the rest of your safety plans are built assuming he won't be there. But yes, he's that good, even if he can't stay healthy. Maybe 2008 will be the charm for him.
JB, although it's a more modern reference coming from my millionth viewing of The Benchwarmers (forced on me by the kids), beef stew is their name for squatting down and farting over a kid's face as he's laying on the ground. And now you're a better man for knowing that.
January 7, 2008
#9 Duff Diggler said . . .Our safety issues do not concern only Mike Brown.
Disclaimer: Mike Brown when healthy is just as good if not better than Bob Sanders and is the captain of the whole team. He has crazy bad luck to have 4 separate unrelated injuries in 4 years. Either way, not only will we get him back, we will at a pretty decent price. He's high risk, high reward, but i'd rather him on my sideline on crutches than anywhere else.......and so on....
Now that that is out of the way.....
Anybody else realize that 2 safeties start in football? Another case of Lovie lying to himself was when he said "we are so deep in that position," and traded wesley....or did we just release him? Others with similar fates:
Green to Seattle for a 6th rounder a couple years ago...
Chris Harris gone after a solid year....
...even Parrish...
...and then we get the great white hype Archeletta for a cool $5M?
I vote Kenny Phillips 2008 (S Miami)! He and a healthy MB is equal or greater than Laron Landry and the late Sean Taylor. Sign Briggs. Move him to the middle (or not). Anyone else think J. Williams competes for starting OLB in 2008? Either way, defense solved. CB and DL is more than solid. esp with healthy and firey DD and a healthier TH. McBride, Mcgowan, Graham, Payne, and Manning(x2) all impressive DB role players.
Why do I always start with one point and then wind up trying to restructure the whole team?
January 7, 2008
#10 Duff Diggler said . . .http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/thenaughties/bearsbriggs.jpg
January 7, 2008
#11 JB said . . .even though i'd like to retain briggs, i realize that he wants out and i just thought that pic was funny....
January 7, 2008
#12 jeff said . . .duff...honestly, did you just cite tony parrish and mike green? umm...no my friend. mike green was not a good football player. chris harris was a 6th round pick a few years ago and a decent starter. look, we have daniel manning and the kid, k. payne going forward with or without mike brown. those guys are only going to get better. lovie swung and missed...and missed big, with arch, but it's not going to hamstring us forever...we could dump him now without long term affects.
i'm not nearly as concerned about safety as many of you are. dumping arch and bringing on one solid guy would be good, but the 1st round pick? i seriously doubt it guys. O-line or QB. defense will be fine when it gets healthy...remember 1st game they shut down SD for most of that game and showed flashes of brilliance. call me bearamistic, but i'm not drafting a safety.
January 7, 2008
#13 Duff Diggler said . . .NEVER MENTION MIKE GREEN ON THIS SITE.
January 7, 2008
#14 Duff Diggler said . . .at least parrish could play on sunday until we broke his leg...ha ha.... don't get me wrong, i wasn't in bed with he or green, but i thought they were decent, and green was certainly worth more than a 6th rounder in my eyes (at the time).... ehhh...to each his own....
here is a list of free agent OLs:
Ruben Brown, UFA, Chicago Bears
Alan Faneca, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
Flozell Adams, UFA, Dallas Cowboys
Jordan Gross, UFA, Carolina Panthers
Ryan Lilja, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
Max Starks, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
Floyd Womack, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Jake Scott, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
Todd Steussie UFA St. Louis Rams
Travelle Wharton UFA Carolina Panthers
OG P.J. Alexander UFA Atlanta Falcons
OT Nat Dorsey UFA Cleveland Browns
OT Trai Essex RFA Pittsburgh Steelers
OG Chris Kemoeatu RFA Pittsburgh Steelers
OT Cory Lekkerkerker RFA San Diego Chargers
OT Sean Locklear UFA Seattle Seahawks
OG Brian Rimpf RFA Baltimore Ravens
OG Keydrick Vincent UFA Baltimore Ravens
OG Fred Weary UFA Houston TexansNow FA safeties:
Mike Doss, UFA, Minnesota Vikings
Ken Hamlin, UFA, Dallas Cowboys
William Bartee UFA Kansas City Chiefs
Jay Bellamy UFA New Orleans Saints
Omar Stoutmire UFA Washington Redskins
Derrick Strait UFA Carolina Panthers
Gibril Wilson UFA New York Giants...I just think drafting Phillips and using our $ for OL is much more feasible. OL FA pool is considerably larger and more talented....
January 7, 2008
#15 Mike said . . .GEEZ you guys! I know I missed a year and a halfs worth of games when I was in Iraq when he was on the team, but was he that bad?!?!
Better yet, I'll just take your word for it....
....it sounds like deep seeded scary uncle issues....
...i won't touch it anymore....and please accept my sincerest appologies...
January 7, 2008
#16 Mt'ike said . . .The Jerry Angelo that I listened to during last week's press conference was dismissive of Mike Brown. He said he still had months to go on his rehabilitation and he inferred (strongly) that he won't be counted on in 2008.
Mike Brown is a lock to be released. There is no way the Bears tie up valuable cap dollars on a player who has missed the better part of 4 consecutive seasons and clearly cannot take a hit in this league. Brown is finished in a Bear uniform.
January 7, 2008
#17 jeff said . . .Fearless predictions...
NY Giants OVER Dallas
Green Bay over SeattleNew England over Jacksonville
Indy over San DiegoP.S. What's the best defense you can have in the NFL? One of the Turner brothers as the opposing offensive coordinator.
January 7, 2008
#18 Shady said . . .mike, not a lock at all to be released. he's not a big cap hit and the coach loves him. i'm expecting the bears to restructure his contract in the spring and i'm hoping he accepts the opportunity to come back and play with an incentive-laden deal.
January 7, 2008
#19 jeff said . . .I'ma be checkin' outt that kidd Flynn tonight.
Big kid. Strong arm. Bears might take a flyer on him in later rounds if they don't pick up Flacco 1st.
January 7, 2008
#20 Pissed Off said . . .one thing is very clear from jerry angelo's press conference: he is bringing in another running back. and i think it's going to be a big guy.
January 7, 2008
#21 Joe Flacco said . . .Totally with JB on the safety issue, not that big of a deal, sign or draft a guy late. If Mike Brown is back, sweet, if not so what? We havent counted on him for 4 years and guess what, we went to the SB last year. D. Manning is DAMN GOOD and will only get better. McGowan is a hard hitter. I'm okay with safety.
For God's sake FUCK FLACCO already. Damn.
January 7, 2008
#22 Shady McBears Fan said . . .Fuck me?
No, no, no, no.
FUCK YOU!
January 7, 2008
#23 Matty said . . .Jeff, I agree Angelo is not content with the RBs he currently has , or a least what's he's getting out of them. I think if the Bears don't win the FA Micheal Turner battle I could see them drafting a RB on the 1st day:
1. Darren McFadden* 6-2 205 4.40 Arkansas (not gonna happen)
2. Rashard Mendenhall* Illinois 5-11 224 4.45 (Would get lots of local support)
3. Jonathan Stewart* Oregon 5-11 230 4.50 (Big and strong, Jeff)
4. Felix Jones* Arkansas 6-0 200 4.50 (Played in the shadow of D McF)
5. Jamaal Charles* Texas 6-1 200 4.40 (Best combo of size and speed)
6. Kevin Smith* Central Florida 6-1 211 4.50
7. Tashard Choice Georgia Tech 6-1 205 4.55
8. Ray Rice* Rutgers 5-9 195 4.45
9. Allen Patrick Oklahoma 6-0 191 4.45
10. Chris Johnson East Carolina 5-11 195 4.20 (4.20? Damn.)
11. Mike Hart Michigan 5-9 196 4.55
12. Rafael Little Kentucky 5-10 195 4.45
13. James Davis* Clemson 5-11 205 4.40
14. Ryan Torain Arizona St. 6-1 213 4.55
15. John Forsett California 5-8 196 4.40
16. Yvenson Bernard Oregon St. 5-9 202 4.50
17. Matt Forte Tulane 6-2 223 4.55
18. BenJarvus Green-Ellis Ole. Miss 5-11 225 4.55
19. Amir Pinnix Minnesota 6-0 205 4.55
I think it's pretty safe to say if the Bears don't pick up a FA RB, we'll see one of these guys in a Bears uniform in 2008. Even if they do sign a FA, we still might see a draft pick on a RB because of the depth at the position in the 2008 class.January 7, 2008
#24 Pissed Off said . . .Like Jeff said it's obvious that Angelo is gonna bring in somebody and somebody big (not a 2nd or 3rd round RB) to compete with Bustin, and after watching the Chargers game last night - even though he had limited minutes - Michael "The Burner" Turner looked like he really could be our feature back with the other guy as a 3rd down/goaline back.
January 7, 2008
#25 Pissed Off said . . .No fuck you. You will be nothing in the NFL you lanky turd.
January 7, 2008
#26 Joe Flacco said . . .Are you upset Joe (Shady) that I dont think you will amount to shit in the NFL?
BTW Mike Hart I would love, of all those backs behind McFadden I like Hart.
January 7, 2008
#27 JB said . . .Only time will tell Sweetheart ;-)
January 7, 2008
#28 Mike said . . .I'll get over my hatred of Oregon for Jonathon Stewart...lemme just say, no running backs from u of texas please. I think it'll be a second round situation though guys...i don't see a 1st round selection on RB. 1st day sure, but 2nd of 3rd round.
January 7, 2008
#29 Mike said . . .Pissed Off, you are off your rocker if you don't think the safety position was a problem for the Bears. I guarantee Jerry Angelo picks a safety on day one of the draft. Mike Brown WAS being counted upon and when he went down it was a huge blow. Adam Archueleta was an insurance policy that turned to shit. And in case you haven't noticed D. Manning hasn't exactly done much in two years. Brendan McGowan is strictly a fill-in.
January 7, 2008
#30 Big Earl said . . .The Bears have 4 picks in the first three rounds. Unless Jerry Angelo can somehow obtain Mike Turner (go NIU) then you can bet the ranch those four picks will be allocated as follows.
- Offensive tackle
- Safety
- Running back
- Wide receiverRex Grossman will leave. Another veteran will be brought into the fold. I'm betting J.P. Losman.
January 7, 2008
#31 Duff Diggler said . . .The Bears need to bring Chicago native Donovan McNabb home. I bet Philly will talk deal. Offer up our 1st and 3rd round picks, then spend the 2nd rounder we still have on an offensive tackle and the other 3rd rounder on a running back.
January 8, 2008
#32 DTB said . . .No effin way are we given a first rounder for McNasty.... i thought we had this talk before....
Angelo keeps saying "running game," not neccessarily "running back"....if i'm way off base with my S prediction (happens from time to time), I still think it's very possible to OL first round.... either way.....
I promise to not first mention K. Phillips again in any given conversation as long as I don't have to hear about Flacco anymore....
January 8, 2008
#33 Chad said . . .OL will be first priority in free agency. I'm tellin' you all right now, we will see two from that list that Duff provided us. I'm putting my money on Gross and either Lilja or Scott. Left tackle and a guard and we're set. Angelo pays for vets on the o-line. Left to right-Gross, Garza, Kruetz, Lilja/Scott and Tait. I'm good with that. You?
January 8, 2008
#34 Megan said . . .re #25
Yeah Mike Hart. He'll be great and continue the long line of great NFL running backs from Michigan. You know, like, Chris Perry, Anthony Thomas, Tim Biakabutuka, Tyrone Wheatley and Ricky Powers.
Mike Hart will dissapear into the void of all the crap running backs that come from Ann Arbor. Jeez, I'm slow and fat and I could rush for 800 yards behind Michigan's offensive line.
January 8, 2008
#35 Mike Hart said . . .Jeff,
Did you "cc" a copy of this to JA and/or Lovie?
Great article.
January 8, 2008
#36 mikebdot said . . .Only time will tell Sweetheart
January 8, 2008
#37 mikebdot said . . .I was not impressed with Mike Hart either. The reason he was so good was because of Jake Long and even the other guys on their line.
Anyone else think that Felix Jones looks like a much better RB than McFadden?
Felix Jones - 133 att - 1162 yards (8.7 yards/att), 16 receptions for 176 yards
Darren McFadden - 325 att - 1830 yards (5.6 yards/att), 21 receptions for 164 yards
Also, Felix Jones returned kicks as well. 1 TD in '05, 1 in '06 and 2 in '07.
January 8, 2008
#38 Pissed Off said . . .Also, he had only 18 returns this season, so 2 in 18 is pretty good. 23 last year and 17 in '05. So, 1 in 14.5 returns. Not bad. 1 in 9 this year.
January 8, 2008
#39 Duff Diggler said . . .Say what you want about Mike Hart, its easy to stereotype a Michigan back because of their history in the NFL, its easy to stereotype anyone in college and say they wont be good. For every 1st round pick that works out there are several busts. What did we all think about Michigan WRs a few years ago....David Terrell and many others....busts. But now look at Braylon Edwards, that guy is a top 5 WR right now. All I'm saying is its easy to say someone wont be good, like I'm doing with Flacco even though I have no reasoning since he is solid in college. Also on the topic, I like both Michigan WRs right now...Manningham especially and Arrington to be good in the NFL too....who knows.
Also regarding Felix Jones, I like him a lot too, not as much as Mike Hart and certainly not as much as McFadden but I see what your saying. Behind McFadden I think he has a legit shot to be good in the NFL....but we said that about Kijana Carter too.....see what I mean.
January 8, 2008
#40 Al in WI said . . .yeah, he's caught my eye aw well....
0 fumbles, 0 lost in 386 attempts as well....
January 8, 2008
#41 mikebdot said . . .Mike, just because other teams have an interest in Grossman doesn't mean he'll leave. Both Angelo and Smith have made it quite clear they want him back to compete with Or-ton for the starting job next. That would have to be more appealing then any other senario in which he could find on another team. Also his family is close to Chicago, and there are other considerations. But someone like you who dislikes him should consider the fact that Bill Parcells has an interest.
Phil, I think you hit the nail on the head when looking at the playoff winners and scoring ability in relation to bringing Rexy, and Berrian back. There is no way we get better on offense without those guys. Besides Jeff's colum on Sunday taught us the cap is not an issue, they can bring in or back who they want.
Safety is absolutely the major need area on defense for starters. Jeff, as a New Yorker what is your take on Gibril Wilson and adding him to the mix?January 8, 2008
#42 Rancid said . . .Al, Phil: with all due respect, we had Rex and Berrian this year and were absolutely awful on offense. How is it we can't get better without keeping them here? I must be missing some valuable logical synapses....
January 8, 2008
#43 JB said . . .Other than Turner, the only other FA RB I am really interested in Justin Fargas from Oakland. He is interested in staying but I think he could be lured away. He quietly had a heck of a year for a lousy team.
I just started reading this thread today and saw that someone mentioned "the safety whom we do not speak of". That had to be from a couple years ago on here back when I just lurked but it was funny.
Mike Brown should return, just with a better insurance policy this year. He has value even on the sideline. There are some Bears I care about more than others and he's one of them.
I want Rex back but I do think that the fact that Miami is interested is a really bad sign. They will be willing to throw some serious money and make some big waves. It worries me.
January 8, 2008
#44 Rancid said . . .What's with all the McNabb hostility? If we could get him at a reasonable price...my head says 2nd rounder...no one would be interested in bringing him in? Are you kidding me? Mike is talking about JP Losman, a poor mans Rex Grossman if there ever was one, and people want to bring in Derek Anderson, but no one is interested in Donovan F. McNabb?
As far as running back, I think M. Turner will want to go somewhere that promises the feature back position...would he really want to come here? I'd be more than happy to promise that #1 spot to anyone other than Benson, but are the bears brass?
January 8, 2008
#45 Rancid said . . .I'm not hostile to McNabb, just the price. It is being put out there that they would want a 1st and 3rd for him. I am hostile to that. I would take him for a 2nd.
Interesting fact from an article on DaSite:
"The Bears either led or trailed by no more than seven points at some point in the fourth quarter in all 16 games this season"
While I think that that fact is misleading to some degree, as we stayed close in some games that we obviously had no chance of winning, it does show that we are not miles away from success, we have work to do sure, but we're a good team that had a poor season, better than being a bad team.
January 8, 2008
#46 Pissed Off said . . .I know he's not a major cog in our machine but John Gilmore is also a UFA now. Anyone care if we re-sign him or not?
January 8, 2008
#47 JB said . . .Mikeb the offense was better when Rex came back from the benching. Better than it had been with either Orton or Griese not to mention we played some quality opponents during that stretch. Overall down, yes, but this offense can be worse.
Love Justin Fargas, had him on my fantasy team. This guy put up huge numbers almost every single game he played. Go look at his stats in the games he was the feature back starting mid year when they used him in favor of Lamont Jordan. If he played the whole year he would have been a top 5 back with his numbers. He pretty much ran for over 100 yards and a score every single week he was the guy. This guy would be fantastic on this team, and he plays with passion unlike Benson mainly cuz I think he has a pretty good story coming up, something like he was a walk on at college or went undrafted or some issue with his family or all the above.
January 8, 2008
#48 jeff said . . .well, it's called a negotiation...you put a price out there that seems a little crazy to the sane person to see if someone bites...you've got the find the interest of the league. if that is seriously what the eagles want for him, they'd ask for 2 1sts and work down from there. a 1st and third tells me you could get away with packaging something and saving the 1st round pick. i'm not going to get the draft value charts out, but we can at some point if anyone is interested.
Anyways, I jumped back on here to point you guys to Larry Mayer's recently posted article about benson on the site. Read that article, paying close attention to the Benson quotes, then come back on here and tell me why I should like that guy because there is absolutely nothing about him that I have EVER liked. Again, with that pick I said "please JA, anybody but Benson" and have hated him ever since he cried his way to the stage.
January 8, 2008
#49 mikebdot said . . .JB, just read the larry article and let me tell you something, cedric benson is a jackass. he's been preaching woah-is-me since draft day and has yet to prove that he is a worthwhile player on the field. trade him away and get nothing...i can't deal with him anymore.
January 8, 2008
#50 Papa Bear said . . .Jeff: In my opinion the media has destroyed any credibility Benson could have built up. There is a difference between Benson preaching this/that and the media reporting every little snippet where he sounds remotely whiny. The media paints pictures. That's all I'm saying. That's not to say I don't think you're not right to some extent, nor would I mind getting rid of him, just saying the media is a fickle animal.
PO'd: I completely disagree with your assessment of Grossman's performance. Show me some evidence that Grossman was better. His completion percentage was 54% (which is just plain not good enough) and was sacked more times per game (by far) than either Orton or Griese, losing 198 yards on 25 sacks. He was terrible in the pocket. I'm not saying I want KO or BG, but if we had someone else, I don't see how they could do much worse than Grossman. I mean, he was so bad they felt they had to pull him in favor of Griese. What does that tell you about their review of the film?
January 8, 2008
#51 mikebdot said . . .Benson will NOT be in a Bears uni at the end of next season. JA needs to give the kid a reasonable chance before flushing him down the toilet. Maybe if he plays ok next year, his trade value rises a little (?).
It's interesting in reading JA's post-mortem on the '07 season how candid he was in comparison to Lovie's statements. There doesn't seem to be a Halas Hall policy in talking to the public, just a Lovie policy.
Fargas was even more impressive when you consider that the Raiders' offense was almost as impotent as the Bears O'. Opposing defenses probably geared up to slow him down and he still put up several 100+ yd games. Something to chew on though, 4 TD's vs. 3 fumbles...Interesting fact about Fargas, he's the son of "Huggy Bear" from the original Starsky and Hutch flick.
January 8, 2008
#52 mikebdot said . . .This is a pretty interesting article I came across while looking for where we stood in comparison to the rest of the league this season.
I don't know where to find this year's stats, but I would bet we were pretty high on the list (or low, whichever way you want to look at it). 15 for brown, 15 for dusty, 10(ish) for Vasher, 8+ for Ruben Brown, Briggs, Benson, Arch, Harris, probably can't count Okwo, Payne, or Bazuin, but that is still depth we missed out on. Not sure how they would count Adams and Garay. Anyhow, we were not as fortunate this year as we were last year in this regard. By a long shot. Just Dusty/Brown/Vasher alone account for more lost starts this season than last season.
January 8, 2008
#53 JB said . . .Fargus' three best games were against the Dolphins (30th ranked D in y/att), Chiefs (who Benson had 100 yards against and 25th ranked D in y/att) and the Texans (27th ranked D in y/att). He ran well against a good Titans D I guess, with a 15 yard and 17 yard run to pad the average a bit. Not sure how wide open the holes were though as I didn't watch the game. One was in shotgun formation on a 1st and 16, so I would guess the D was fooled.
January 8, 2008
#54 RandomName said . . .interesting article mike...i think we'd be in the top 5 for sure, but i think the bills would be #1 (or #32 i guess)...they lost just about everyone and stayed pretty competitive. interestingly enough, they love jauron there. i have a bills fan for a colleague and he can't stop talking about just how much they love him. i find that interesting.
January 8, 2008
#55 RandomName said . . .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdMExpYXWOk
Guys check this out! the funny is too funny.
January 8, 2008
#56 Pissed Off said . . .umm .. the beginning is too funny.
January 8, 2008
#57 Papa Bear said . . .Well I completely disagree with your disagreement of my assessment of Rex. I dont care what you want to throw at me but he looked far better in those games since he came back from his benching than he ever has at any point in his NFL career. Anyone whos watched those games closely can tell you that. The team as a whole and the guys around him (O-line, WRs, RBs) were all worse this year than last year and that will contribute to his lack of stats. He was not careless like he used to be and he looked more competent than even at the begining of 2006 when he went on his "offensive player of the month" run.
My feelings on Benson haven't really changed after reading that article. He's always been a guy who plays without passion but cant back it up.
January 8, 2008
#58 mikebdot said . . .Granted Rexy's receivers and O-line suck, but the dude has to learn how to side-step a chargin 300 lb lineman every once in a while and learn how to thrown the frickin' ball away or check down. He should be able to do that much 5 years into his career, Ron Turner be damned. We're not asking for him to become Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, we're just asking for him not to be Brian Griese. That, and he can't keep taking hits on the leg.
Rex is an average QB, Griese is an average QB, Orton is an average QB. The Bears have...AVERAGE QBs. Just varying levels of mediocrity. PO'd, I know Rex has some sort of spell on you, but beware of the man's faults. In the end, he too will let you down, however gently you prefer it.
January 8, 2008
#59 Duff Diggler said . . .Of course, we lost 2 of those 3 games he started. He was sacked 11 times in those two losses. He was sacked 11 times in the first 9 games of last season, which of course includes the 3 games he played in September when he was voted player of the month (2 sacks in 3 games). So, yeah, he was much better dealing with pressure coming back from the benching.
Sacks kill drives. Throw the ball away, or, god forbid, complete a pass under pressure. Other QBs in the league CAN do that, as it turns out, at least as occasionally as he does, which is why I'm arguing it doesn't matter if we bring in someone else. You're arguing you like Rex, which has nothing to do with whether or not someone else would be just as likely to improve upon our awful offensive season.
January 8, 2008
#60 Duff Diggler said . . .the question remains..... if not Rex than who? Here are the FA QBs:
Derek Anderson, RFA, Cleveland Browns
Rex Grossman, UFA, Chicago Bears
Daunte Culpepper, UFA, Oakland Raiders
Quinn Gray, UFA, Jacksonville Jaguars
Ken Dorsey UFA Cleveland Browns
Ryan Fitzpatrick RFA Cincinnati Bengals
Drew Henson UFA Minnesota Vikings
Cleo Lemon UFA Miami Dolphins
Jared Lorenzen UFA New York Giants
Jamie Martin UFA New Orleans SaintsI.E. if not Rex, a risky trade, or draft, then who? I no i sure as hell don't want any of these guys....
*except for maybe DA, but he's restricted and it's not gonna happen....
January 8, 2008
#61 Pissed Off said . . .http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html
.....if you need a works cited page....lol
January 8, 2008
#62 Shady said . . .Well he would have taken 48 sacks if didnt throw the ball away. Now your just bringing up stupid shit. The guy was throwing the ball away plenty. Again you can look at stats all day long and guess what...I DONT CARE. Too bad you cant find a stat that shows how many times he threw the ball away. I watch the games, you base them on stats only. The team sucked, the o-line sucked which brought Rex down and attributed to most of the sacks. I know what he's capable of and how he looked in those games. I like it and think we need it back cuz no one we will get will do that for this franchise next year but him.
January 8, 2008
#63 Papa Bear said . . .Grossman has always performed better when there was competition for the QB position. I don't know if he took it for granted that he was the starter in '07, but he certainly didn't take advantage of the opportunity he was GIVEN. It wasn't until they took away his job that Rex began to show signs that he could be a consistent starting QB.
I wouldn't mind seeing McNabb thrown into the mix next year instead of Greasy, but giving up a 1st and 3rd is crazy talk. McNabb has proven that he can get it done as a starter and would certainly add a spark for the offense. Bringing back the same 'ol crew next year (Rexy, Beard and Grease) is a scary thought if things go the way they did in '07.
Weekly Masterplan:
Lose Briggs, Berrian, and Grossman (Wouldn't mind ending the rexperiment) and save $ to bring in:
-2 FA O-Lineman (Faneca, Wharton, Lilja or Starks)
-1 FA QB (McNabb)
-1 FA WR (Porter? Hackett?)
-1 FA OC (Anybody but Turner)Draft:
1st rd. O-Lineman (Clady, Baker or Otah)
2nd rd. WR (Manningham or Hardy) or RB (Mendenhall, Felix Jones or J. Stewart)
3rd rd. RB or WR (Whichever 1 you didn't draft in rd. 2)
4th rd. Safety or DT (Best available)
5th rd. Guard
6th. Best player available
7th. Best defensive player availableAny questions?
January 8, 2008
#64 PolygonHell said . . .According to STATS.com, 38% of Rex's throws were because of poor throws. You can stop the '08 playoff talk if that's what you're counting on next year.
But that's only if you careabout something like numbers...or facts...or reality.
January 8, 2008
#65 Duff Diggler said . . .#50 - I agree I thought Angelo's press conference was very upfront. Doesn't necessarilly mean there's no press policy in place. I have one where I work, and exec's pretty much ignore it.
If it is just Lovie, Angelo needs to hire him a PR coach ;)#56 I've never understood the whole must be passionate in sports thing. So what if the guy doesn't show a lot of emotion. All I care about is what he's doing on the field. As far as it goes with Benson he's clearly underperformed this year.
The only reason I'd be inclined to give him another shot is that
a) he's cheaper to keep then get rid of (in salary cap terms).
b) none of our running backs have really performed.The running game is clearly broken, some of it is the O-Line, some of it is on the backs and some on the scheme/calling.
I wouldn't want to hang it on one person.January 8, 2008
#66 mikebdot said . . .what are you willing to give up for Mcnasty, cuz hes not a FA.....
....and what of our other 3rd rounder in said "weekly masterplan?"
January 8, 2008
#67 Willie from Chicago said . . .PO'd: At least I bring up anything other than "I saw him play with my own eyes". So did I, does that not give me just as much credibility? You don't think losing 200 yards running backwards in the pocket matters? Just stupid shit, I suppose. 8 games of play losing 25 yards per game, then not making up for it on the next play or two and actually getting a first down.
Yes, our line sucks, but Brian Griese had the same line and took 15 sacks with more pass attempts I believe. That was my point. Yes, Griese threw a few more picks. I know this, the point is, there wasn't a clear winner and I can't wait for some damned competition at the position and if Grossman isn't part of it, I will not whine about it, like everyone whined about losing Thomas Jones, who, incidentally had 3.6 yards per carry. Slightly better than CB, but I doubt with our offensive line+FB+TE performance in run blocking this season would have done much better. He also had a whopping 1 rushing TD (1 receiving as well).
January 8, 2008
#68 Duff Diggler said . . .With all the UFA out there, who besides Derick Anderson is a proven QB? The answer is nobody. And do we realy want to spend the kind of money on DA when we can keep Rex for cheaper. Plus why do you think the Brownies are getting rid of DA? because they know that hes a one year wonder, and they know hes not going to get better. So why take the risk when we know that Rex is a solid QB that just needs some protection.
Now I do think we should take an O lineman in FA because there are a ton of them. In the draft we should maybe get Kenny Philips S from Miami. If MB is healthy then we should have a good secondary with themn 2.
January 8, 2008
#69 Duff Diggler said . . .BTW.....Kevin Smith (UCF's sophmore record breaking RB, as opposed to hailed writer, producer, and director of movies including but not limited to; Clerks, Clerks II, Mallrats, and Jay and Silent Strike Back) to enter draft! I think the Bears to be wise if their plans include scouting him....
January 8, 2008
#70 Shady said . . .*Silent Bob*....excuse me....
January 8, 2008
#71 Shady said . . .Said masterplan needs a bit of tweaking... Any suggestions?
January 8, 2008
#72 Duff Diggler said . . .2 problems with taking Safety Kenny Phillips:
1. He'll probably be gone by 14
2. The Bears can't afford to pick anything other than an offensive player. The Bears at least have OPTIONS to fill in at the safety position, but who's going to fill in for Miller? R. Brown? Tait? Who do thy have? Beekman? If he was that good, they would have played him in week 15 and 16.
January 8, 2008
#73 JB said . . .how about this Shady?
Release/Can/or just don't sign:
Briggs (i know, i keep changing my mind....)
Grossman (if we can get McNasty)
Ron TurnerResignings:
Brendon I am Bodacious
Bernard BerrianFree Agents:
Alan Faneca
Jordan Gross
Burner Turner
Mike MartzTrade:
2nd and 2nd 3rd round pick for McNastyDraft:
1st: S Kenny Phillip (thank you Willie for opening that pandoras box for me)
3rd: Marcus Freeman LB OSU
4th-7th: (no spec. order) WR, DE, OT, WR....of course this plan is dependent on the aquisition of McNast....
Jeff: Random Question.... why is it that one can mention Cordell Stewart on this site without reprecusion, yet cannot cite the Safety who will remain nameless?
January 8, 2008
#74 mikebdot said . . .Kordell with a K.
Can we stop talking about Kenny Phillips? There is no possible way the Bears will go defense with the first pick. This is an O-line, QB situation. For the love of Halas, it can be a WR for all I care, but it will not be a safety. We ranked 30th in overall offense this year. let's get some people that can block.
January 8, 2008
#75 mikebdot said . . .JB: We were 28th in yards given up and 27th in yards gained (according to pro-football-reference.com). 16th in points allowed and 18th in points scored. I'd say we sucked on both sides of the ball, and safety was one of the reasons we sucked most on D when Brown got hurt.
Of course, I think O-line is much more important, but if we pick up one or two guys in free agency, hopefully that would alleviate our need, especially for the first pick. Should we take a QB if we get 2 or 3 O-lineman? RB? WR? I would think safety would be just as much of a need, especially depending on what happens with Mike Brown's injury.
January 8, 2008
#76 Pissed Off said . . .Speaking of pro-football-reference.com, I just noticed that Grossman was sacked 10% of the time. Wow.
Here's a list of QB's with a worse sack % (I left out those with less than 25* pass attempts):
Ben Roethlisberger (32 TDs vs. 11 INTs and 65.3 comp %, so he made up for it)
J.T. O'Sullivan
Daunte Culpepper (don't want him either)
Kelly Holcolm & Brooks Bollinger (both with a better rating than Grossman)
Trent DilferThat is the complete list. Only 6 QBs were sacked more frequently. One of which actually completed passes and threw touchdown passes while doing so. I don't like those odds.
*disclaimer - I set the floor at 25 pass attempts so I could include J.T. O'Sullivan, otherwise, I would have left him and Holcolm and Bollinger off since they were both under 100, which would have brought the grand total to 3.
January 8, 2008
#77 Pissed Off said . . .Numbers and stats are like QB rating....meaningless. Watch the games thats reality. Get off your stat wagon dude, watch the games. BTW where were you last year when the team was good? The only stat that counts is the wins and if I recall Rex got us aplenty of em in 2006 and will do it again in 2008. Your logic is delusional at best. Mikedbot your in this too, your trying to make up crap that has no bearing on the performance of Rex. THE O-LINE is responsible for the sacks, not Rex dude. Sometimes yeah its on Rex or whoever is under center if they have too much time and dont make a decision but 99% of the time its becasue the O-line doesnt protect a QB and he doesnt have time. I cant believe you two stooges are even aruging the sack issue of all things and trying to pin it on Rex....delusional.
You dont want him back or your the fair weather types who bash him but dont see the games or the good stuff he does, I get it but seriously try to give me a compelling solution. You cant. We need him back and you better start looking at some positive cuz if he is wearing a bear uniform next year you should probably support the team.
January 8, 2008
#78 JB said . . .BTW, its a good day for you two to be teaming up on me since the majority of the non-delusional objective fans arent here.
January 8, 2008
#79 Rancid said . . .Oh, I don't think for a second our defense played well this year. But I want to say a lot of that had to do with being banged up. Wasn't there a game where we started 1 of our 4 starting DB's? Then those guys got hurt. I'm just not worried about the defensive side of the ball as much. Are you guys giving up on Daniel Manning? I'm assuming we're all agreed he's good to go. Then you have one other spot that will be filled by Brown or Payne or McGowan before we draft another young guy and develop him.
I'm sick of getting the ball near midfield most of the game because of the Devin factor and not being able to move the ball. at all. until the last two minutes of a game. that stat about being in every game until the fourth quarter this year is an indictment of our offense not winning games.
January 8, 2008
#80 Papa Bear said . . .If you are not in favor of keeping Rex, you'd better have PLAN B in place. I don't have a Rex tattoo on my butt or anything but I defenitely want him back because of all the available options I can see, he's by far the best.
OPTIONS:
1. Re-sign Rex
2. KO - risky, better to have both
3. BG - I just thre up in my mouth
4. McNabb/DA - too expensive
5. Losman - no better than Rex, maybe worse
6. Pennington - Limited arm, injury potential (good backup for us though)
7. Other FA - there is no one
8. Rookie - even a first rounder won't be ready that quick.
Rex is the best option for our team for the coming year. If you have a better name or something I overlooked that would be better than Rex, by all means, let's hear it. I don't think it's out there.
January 8, 2008
#81 Papa Bear said . . .PO'd, I'm not quite sure where you lose touch with reality and get wrapped up in your warped narcisstic world. Maybe it's when you start feeling butteflies in your stomach everytime #8 prances out on the field. Or how your knees go weak everytime he bats his eyes at you.
We all watched the games. We watched for the last 20+ years. But somehow, most of us are able to seperate a good QB from somebody who can simply drop back and chuck a ball 50 yards down the field. Somewhere in between his ears, the guy has to be able to make quick decisions. For a combination of reasons, including his own, he hasn't been able to do that on a consistent basis.
Settle down and keep your panties on you little priss.
January 8, 2008
#82 Pissed Off said . . .Oh yeah, maybe you missed my #57 when I chipped in on the O-line and the WRs.
To back that up, Ben 4 syllables from Pittsburgh gets sacked just as much, but manages to complete 63% of his passes for 32 TDs and 11 INTs.
January 8, 2008
#83 Papa Bear said . . .Papa Bear your a D-bag of all D-bags and yes I can call you that since you started the name calling first. I like Rex, no surprise. Your fair weather type is pathetic. Get some sense man, I assume your an old-time who's "seen it all." Well if you have than you know Rex could be the best QB we've had since Luckman and we need him for one more chance. Your the type who will always call for the backup and never see the positive. Your reserved to thinking we can never have a great QB here. You can say he's had chances but he's always been "the guy" and coddled to an extent so when he came from that benching he played for something. He was great, he made quick decisions, which you accuse him on not doing (but that doesnt shock me given what you've written in the past) and he didnt get us beat. He played with what he had which was a shitty O-line, concrete fingered WRs and no running game. His season in 2006 is arguable the 3rd best season ever by a Bears QBever and I want one more shot with "post-benched Rex" who is even better than 2006 Rex. Get the O-line fixed and get the run game shored up along with some consistency at WR. If that happens and Rex is healthy you'll be eating a hefty portion of crow next year.
January 8, 2008
#84 Pissed Off said . . .There's nothing wrong with bringing Rex back, just don't tie your wagons to the mule. Going back to weeks ago, I've said bring him and KO into camp and let them duke it out. But be objective and stop going off this crap of "he's got potential". It's damn near 6 years, up-and-coming is about to be up-and-gone.
And to be fair, I didn't know about the blog until this year. Don't pretend like you own this spot. If you have a lucid though, post it. Got it sport? If you want to assume, assume I'm nearing 30. Oh, jackass, you started the name calling first by calling me "delusional", I'm just finishing what you're starting. And if you remember correctly, I'm the "fair weather fan" from a couple weeks back that was cheering on my team against the Packers when you were packing it in and getting amp'd for the off-season. Loser.
January 8, 2008
#85 Pissed Off said . . .Good for you. I dont care if Big Ben completes 62% of his passes. He has a decent O-line and still gets sacked what does that tell you. Also He has hall of fame talent in Hines Ward to work with as well as up and comers like Santonio Holmes and Nate Washington. And its not like I've ever said Rex is the best QB ever, Big Ben may very well just be a better QB, so is Brady, Manning etc.
January 8, 2008
#86 DTB said . . .If you have a lucid though, post it.
What the fuck does that mean you illiterate tool?
BTW feel free to go back and read my posts. I dont own the spot and never claimed to, its a public fourm but I did have a column every third Sunday during the regular season, go back and read em.
January 8, 2008
#87 Pissed Off said . . .For everyone that is attempting to presume what the Bears will do in the off-season, just look to the past, FUCK. JA will sign offensive linemen period, maybe draft one in the mid rounds. He will re-sign Rex because he gives us the best chance to win. All other options are worse than re-signing a playmaker such as Rex. In the draft, he very well could pick a defender in the first round, I know I wouldn't shit myself. As for the rest of the draft I have faith that he will bolster the team in areas that aren't already strengthened by the return of the entire '07 draft class. The future is still bright people, realize that bumps in the road occur and in fact can be better for the overall outlook of the team moving forward. And I do agree PO'ed Papa Bear is a HUGE D-Bag!
January 8, 2008
#88 DTB said . . .And good for you about rooting for the Bears against the pack, we're happy for you. I dont know what your trying to imply there but I ALWAYS cheer on the Bears watching every minute of every game.
January 8, 2008
#89 Pissed Off said . . .Plus he refrenced STATS.com. That is terrible! The staff over there is as qualified to determine a "poor throw" as the average arm chair quarterback. The whole staff consists of fans, like you and I to provide relevant material to franchises and fans alike. I worked there for 4 years, I should know. They have 10 employees and none of them were hired for thier football knowledge. They are a joke.
January 8, 2008
#90 Mike said . . .I remember you mentioning that you used to work there a while back. The STATS reference kinda kills his credibility then too. Mabye he's one of the 10. Anyway I am excited to see how this whole offseason plays out. I want to see what moves are made, who we draft and who from the draft actually makes the team.
BTW did we ever get a real explanation on Bazuin or Beekman. Were they just not good enough to make the roster or what? Someone mentioned that they were basically "red-shirted" NFL style but isnt that an inditement (sp) that they arent very good and cant be counted upon?
January 8, 2008
#91 DTB said . . .The storyline out of Halas Hall is that Dan Bauzain looked terrible in training camp to the point that Lovie didn't want him on the club. The accomodation was to redshirt him for a year by stuffing him on IR. Sounds like the making of another Jerry Angelo draft bust.
January 8, 2008
#92 JB said . . .If you liken either of them to D twice (Dusty of course), I then feel much more comfortable about them coming back next year. Not to mention the others that we drafted, Payne and Okwo. Along with Briggs and possibly Berrian out the door, i think we may see a pretty interesting shuffle of those on the way out and these guys emerging as the new crop of Bears. Dont be shocked if we see something similar to Tennesse a few years back after their SB loss; purging old vets, letting youth take over with some key signings and not really missing a beat. Goodbye Miller, R. Brown, Walker, AA, Briggs, A. Brown, R. Manning, Griese and the last, I hope not but could very well be M. Brown. Here's to keeping the core intact and injecting youth into a Bears team that needs to remember how good they actually are.
January 8, 2008
#93 Papa Bear said . . .Did you try to sneak alex brown on that list. No dice DTB...Alex Brown stays.
BTW, what the hell happened on here? I leave for an hour and an argument breaks out. Let's reserve the namecalling for Mike. And speaking of Mike, where'd you get your Dan B. information. From what I read, he never fully recovered from an injury and was put on the shelf. Are you privy to Lovie's personal notebook? And btw, you can't IR someone because you don't want them on the team anymore.
I've done this before, but can we clean up the difference between your and you're? you're = you are as in you're a douche bag.
January 8, 2008
#94 DTB said . . .DTB/PO'd, you 2 chimps can barely claim an opposable thumb. What PO'd you posted a column on here? Be sure to place that right next to your Nobel prize on the trophy case.
I never ceased to be amazed that whenever someone gets on and post things that paint Rex to be QB he is in real life, things like numbers, facts, or history they're called "fair weather fans" or "delusional". If you want to stick with your argument about Rex getting more W's, KO is 12-6 as a starter. How's that work your cherry? Or you want more stats, how are these links? It's got to be total coincidence the top QBs are almost identical while Rex hangs in the lower rungs. This is after his "glory year" of 2006. Chumps.
2007 http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php
2006 http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2006.php
Ben 4 syllables has won a Super Bowl when given the chance. You can chalk it up to better O-lines, WRs (Santonio? come on champ, you can do better than that), or RBs. But when given the keys to the Chevy, Rex limped off the line this year.
January 8, 2008
#95 Scott said . . .Those stats, they're really great. Unfortunately we are not talking about fantasy football here. We are talking about whether or not Rex gives us a better chnce to win than all other options on the table. Rex makes plays, period. Does he fuck up as well, yes. So do all other QB's in this league. He's not a star but he his competent as the starting QB of the Bears. If you knew anything about Rex in '06 he had 4 terrible games that accounted for a mediocre stat line. Also, I do not blame him for the loss to Indy. I blame Ron Turner (this guy has got to go). '07 was an abberition and in '08, the Sex-cannon will be unleashed again.
January 8, 2008
#96 Duff Diggler said . . ."You two chimps..."?! Seriously, Papa Bear, who really talks like that? Listen, we all want the same thing: a QB who will give us a chance to win. Saying Rex sucks may be true but, sadly, he's probably our best bet. I don't see Angelo trading away the picks it would take to get McNabb and if he focused on him he might miss the chance to shore up the position with the likes of Rex, Orton, a pick and maybe another FA type who could fill in at #3 if needed. Rex has done nothing to make us anything other than nervous but Rex is also only the third Bears QB to ever line up under center in a Super Bowl. That's got to count for something.
January 9, 2008
#97 Shady said . . .too funny! When did Dennis Miller become a bears fan?
lmao........."opposable thumbs...."
January 9, 2008
#98 Sir Diggs-a-lot said . . .#72 Sir Diggs-a-lot:
Release/Can/or just don't sign:
Briggs (i know, i keep changing my mind....) CHECK. We all know he gone.
Grossman (if we can get McNasty) ACTUALLY.
I would like to see him on the '08 roster behind McNabb.
Ron Turner REMEMBER. MIKE WAS THE ONE SAYING FIRE RON TURNER BEFORE IT WAS COOL.Resignings:
Brendon I am Bodacious CHECK!
Bernard Berrian CHECK! But this might not be so easy if we want to bring in...Free Agents:
Alan Faneca ... MIGHT NOT BE worth all the money. There are cheaper fixes with the myriad of choices in FA and the draft.
Jordan Gross YEP.
Burner Turner CHECK.
Mike Martz NO WAY. HE IS THE OIL IN LOVIE'S WATER. THERE ARE SOME OTHER GOOD NAMES OUT THERE THAT WOULD WORK.Trade:
2nd and 2nd 3rd round pick for McNasty. DONE.Draft:
1st: S Kenny Phillip (thank you Willie for opening that pandoras box for me)
CLOSE THAT BOX. THEY NEED A LINEMAN OR WR FOR McNABB, NOW.
3rd: Marcus Freeman LB OSU.
WILLIAMS AND OKWO ARE IN THE WINGS. Draft DT, OT/OG or WR here.
4th-7th: (no spec. order) WR, DE, OT, WR.
HERE'S WHERE ANGELO AND HIS SCOUTS CAN FIND THOSE DEFENSIVE GEMS LATE IN THE DRAFT.Depth Chart:
QB: McNabb, Grossman, Orton (Goodbye Griese, nothing personal)
FB: McKie, J. Hester
RB: Turner, Benson, Peterson, Wolfe?
WR: Berrian (hopefully), Hackett/Porter if BB goes, Moose, Riddeau/Hass, Hester.LT: Faneca,Gross, Clady, Baker or Otah
LG: R. Brown or other FA,
C: Kreutz
RG: Garza
RT: TaitDefense:
DE: Ogunleye, Alex Brown (isn't going anywhere) and Mark Anderson (on 3rd downs)
DT: Tommie Harris, Dusty Dvorcek, Idonije, Walker is gone.
MLB: Urlacher
OLB: Hunter Hillenmeyer, Jamar Williams, Brendon Ayanbadejo
CB: Tillman, Vasher, McBride, Manning Jr.
S: D. Manning, Brown? Payne? AA is gone. Forever.Now looking back, this isn't going to do it. Scrap this one, we need masterplan #2.
January 9, 2008
#99 Viva said . . .yep....well ur right about Martz for sure....Sirius just said he landed in San Fran...
January 9, 2008
#100 Megan said . . .Papa Bear...ly,
You are an antagonistic uncle fucker with a giant cock-holster under your nose.
Fire Ron Turner!
January 9, 2008
#101 Sir Diggs-a-lot said . . .Way down here at the bottom...
FFF?? (F****** Fantasy Football)
I am so f****** tired of fantasy football, I could give a rat's patootie.
Please, can we focus on the actual game, with actual players ON actual teams and not individual performances? What the great googaly-moogaly does that piece of crap fantasy stuff have to do with how the heck we will do better AS A TEAM next year?Can we ban FFF from here? Go to a FFF site and post all the crap you want.
January 9, 2008
#102 Shady said . . .I still all for another "Big-Cat Williams-esque" experiment of Idonije on the OL.... wouldn't a feasable in-house OL fix make a huge difference in this offseason? I mean still keep him blocking field goals too... but with a healthy TH, DD, and maybe even this Toenia (idk wtf his name is) kid and a draft pick, we should be ok...... right? ...plus if DD starts doing a MB impression, just send him back....
...but ur right about Walker, Sirius was talking about him too....apparently it would cost an arm and a leg to keep him for next year....totally not worth it....
January 9, 2008
#103 Mike said . . .Duff,
Jeff makes a good point in his simple rule #1: You win games at the line of scrimmage.
As nice as an in-house fix would be, the Bears are simply not deep enough on either side of the ball to experiment with things like that. Izzy is one of my favorite players, but I'm not sure he has what it takes to join the O-Line. Even still, he presence on special teams and defense is too valuable to give up, especially if they lose Brendon Ayanbadejo. The nose tackle position seems to be the most thin. Assuming everyone stays we have: Dusty, Walker and babatunde oshinowo or something. Once Walker goes, can we count on DD to be healthy?
James "Big Cat" was the man. I think Big Cat was like 6'7 330 while Izzy is only about 6'6 275 - but he IS doing a good job of wearing that #71 with Chicago Bear pride.
January 9, 2008
#104 Pissed Off said . . .Read this now and deal with it later girlie men...
Rex Grossman - GONE to the Baltimore Ravens or Miami Dolphins
Lance Briggs - GONE to the Indy Colts or Washington Redskins
Bernard Berrian - GONE to the San Francisco 49ers or San Diego Chargers
January 9, 2008
#105 mikebdot said . . .Knew it would never happen but I'm disappointed nonetheless that Martz landed in San Fran. I wanted him here. And from what their offense produced this year there may not have been a better place for him to go than San Fran.
Mike I appreciate your bold predictions all the time but I seriously think your way off on a lot of em. We can all speculate, hell thats what we do but seriously you think all THREE (Btwice, Briggs and Rex) will be gone. Didnt you say Brendan A will be gone too? Are we going to keep anyone? Based on your logic its a wonder how we fill a 53 man roster every year.
January 9, 2008
#106 Rancid said . . .Since I keep hearing about Rex being a "playmaker", I'll go ahead and ask, what plays has Rex Grossman made this year?
1. TD throw against Oakland (against a 3rd stringer in single coverage and Fred Miller was definitely holding on the play to prevent a sure sack)
2. TD throw against Denver - this was a great throw/catch, quick delivery, etc. I give him credit there.What other plays did he make? I don't even count those two, the first for obvious reasons (great pass, but even Griese had one of those to Hester, as did Orton).
I just don't see how he can be labeled a "playmaker". He sucks in the pocket. Proof? 25 sacks for 200 lost yards (8 yards per sack, for the math un-inclined). He still runs backwards and he's slow.
I just want some new blood. I don't particularly care who it is. Shit, I'd be ok with KO I think. That's sad to say and to even think, but I'm tired of rooting for Grossman. But, if they re-sign him and he starts, I guess I'll just be in for a long year next year. I'm not sure how this qualifies me as fair-weather, especially since we sucked this year and I've visited here pretty much weekly.
January 9, 2008
#107 Phil from SATX said . . .mikebdot - you can't want KO just because you're tired of cheering for Rex. That's irrational. If you have the opinion that KO will perform better than Rex, then that makes sense. I am also a little weary of the QB carousel, which has a lot to do with Rex's inconsistency, but when I look at the other options (post #79), Rex still makes the most sense for me.
January 9, 2008
#108 Phil from SATX said . . .You guys got crazy around here yesterday. Sorry I wasn't around for it.
PO'd, it's not like you need help defending yourself, but you rile up the Papa Bear's of the world when you suggest that all or most of Rex's misadventures were others' faults. MikeD was correct about Rex running backwards and being responsible for many of those sacks.
The big positive about Rex is the improvement and growth he showed in his return, changing the minds of some of us who were certain he could never be anything more than he was in the woeful performances at the beginning of this season. So when I look at bringing Rex back, which I am convinced the team must do if at all possible, it's not because I think that the Rex at the beginning of the year was not the "true" Rex, it's that he's shown me he can improve, and improve in relatively quick fashion. Why he didn't improve but actually got worse in the offseason I don't know (but I have a hunch, and it rhymes with Bon Vurner). But he's shown me that he can improve.
If you can combine the more mature and competent overall QB play he showed in his return with his star quality arm, he showed me that he has the potential to be an elite QB. And that's more than you can say about most of the FA crop out there.
Regarding McNabb, my problem is I've seen him be really bad too many times over the last year, and he's gotten hurt too. I don't want to spend a bunch for an OLD up and down QB (we can spend little for one already on our roster) and especially don't want to spend a lot for one who has a high likelihood of injury. Giving up 2 of our top 4 picks sounds disastrous to me.
Think about it - is McNabb with the Bears going to win you a Super Bowl? Is he as good as the top 4 QBs still playing right now? Maybe at one time he was, now he's clearly not. We NEED those picks.
Mike, your belief in your own predictions is inspiring. However, I believe you're wrong about Rex - he'll be back as Bear, unless his agent is insane or the mild interest shown by other teams escalates into a bidding frenzy (highly doubtful). Briggs looks to be gone, BB will depend on the market, and the market sounds like they'll be offering a lot to get him. Might be the year of the franchise tag for BB.
And I'm sure the reference to Mike and Ron Turner was about MikeD, since we used to call the other Mike Mike Turner given how he always wanted to give Turner a pass and blame it all on bad Bears players. Still can't believe that Turner's actually staying.
Also, I still like Kenny Phillips if he's around at 14. Some mocks still have him available there, although he seems to be moving up. We're not set at safety given MB's health (if we could ensure his health we would be, but again, Bears have to try to keep him but plan for him to be a casualty). However, I liked McGowan's progress at the end of the season and given a front 7 that includes TH, Alex Brown, Ogun, DD and BU, the D. Manning and B. McGowan combo could be okay - didn't see enough of Payne to see how he fits in.
I think Ricky M will be gone as well.
January 9, 2008
#109 Pissed Off said . . .Another comment about Briggs - it is possible that we're wrong and they could re-sign him - remember last year's offseason when the Bears had the franchise tag hanging over his head and were looking actively for trade offers, and none came? Now Briggs had another great year, but still, the fact that no other team was willing to pony up for the guy really confused me. Maybe he's more gettable than we think.
January 9, 2008
#110 Phil from SATX said . . .Mikedbot are you really Papa Bear?
Phil you bring up some good points there. The only area I will disagree slightly is that I still will continue to think that the majority of the sacks are not his fault. Do you seriously think most people (coaches, fans, scouts...anyone) actually put the sacks as the fault of the QB. I strongly think not. Sometimes yes if he actually has time and stands in the pocket too long but mostly its because the QB is blindsided by the defensive end or he steps up and the D lineman gets him from behind or mostly the coverage breaks down right away and he's bumrushed as he's taking his initial drop back to pass. Those are not the fault of the QB unless he's been hanging in there already for several seconds and depending on the play call (ron turder) or the pass pattern the QB may be expected to hang in there a long time for a deep pass or slow developing route.
January 9, 2008
#111 Al in WI said . . .PO'd, I think you're right, the majority are not his fault. It's those sacks that could have been avoided by being shifty in the pocket that stand out. If you look at the range of being good and bad at avoiding sacks, on the far end of the plus side of the spectrum you have Tony Romo, who may be better than anyone I've ever seen at avoiding sacks, and on the other side you have the late Drew Bledsoe, who was statue-like plus needed 8 seconds to get rid of the ball.
Rex was probably a little left of center in that equation. To be successful with our 2007 line, a QB needed to be well to the right of center. I think BG was right of center, but didn't have the arm to consistently get the ball to receivers when he escaped the rush.
But Rex did improve significantly in his pocket presence upon his return, and if he could learn to step up in the pocket, he would improve even more.
January 9, 2008
#112 Papa Bear said . . .Po'd, sorry I wasn't around for this man. My God!!!
I want to get this straight Mikeb, you are angry at Rex because of his low completion %, but you want him to throw the ball away more, or even better to throw the ball up for grabs? That makes complete sense given his development.
Keep in mind that the games Rex started later in the year came against the best pass rush in the NFL in the NY Giants, and one of the best in Seattle. Also the loudest stadium in the league. Just ask Washington.
And when it comes to stats Po'd is right on when he says you watch the fucking game and make a decision based on that. For example when you talk about Rex's stats do they take into consideration the several dropped td's by the Bears recievers? (Berrian Dallas, Moose Denver, Hester NYG) Or the Td's taken away by penalties or by poor route running? (Berrian SD, Olsen Denver)
Taking away dropped passes Grossman would have put up back to back 300 plus yard games against Denver and the Giants. Not to mention what games like the 8 dropped passes versus denver did to his stats. As it was his rating was 80 plus in his return and there was an obvious improvement in his game.( not that I buy into that stat, but you do, so there you go)
January 9, 2008
#113 mikebdot said . . .No one is saying that Rex is totally at fault for taking all those sacks, but he could stand to be a little more nimble in the pocket. Maybe get the ball out a little quicker, check down, or throw it away. KO and Griese are given the same O-line and WRs and don't have the same rate of sacks. Granted with Griese, you have other issues. Instead of button-hooking against the Giants pass rush right into the waiting arms of the DE, maybe Rex can step into the pocket and throw or scramble. But you shouldn't have to teach this to him 5 years into his career, injuries and RT aside.
Stop looking at Rex for what he could be and look at him for what he is with his known faults. Bring him back on a 1 yr deal. Bring him and KO into camp and let the two duke it out for the starting spot. No guarantees or promises to either of them.
January 9, 2008
#114 mikebdot said . . .PO'd: No, I am not PapaBear. I am trying very hard not to name call lately. I don't think it adds any value to my life. As for whether or not ALL the sacks are Rex's fault, that is clearly not the case, but his sack rate is among the highest in the league. Surely there are lines that are just as bad at letting people by (or else we have the worst line in the NFL by a longshot, since Rex should have been sacked even more, according to you, which would have given him the mantle of "most sacked QB in the league"), but even if that were true, it doesn't explain how Griese and Orton evaded the rush easier and made their reads quicker, nor how Griese completed a higher percentage of his passes if he, presumably would have had to throw the ball away even more since he avoided more sacks.
Al: You forgot to mention I said Rex could complete more passes by actually stepping up and throwing the ball rather than get sacked. He definitely should not retreat backwards because he doesn't have the speed to run around the collapsed pocket and complete a pass on the run. I don't remember many plays where he's even completed a pass on the run. And, no I don't "buy into" a single game QB rating as, just as you state, it doesn't take anything like dropped passes into account. QB sacks are not just a stat. Those are game changing plays. 200 yards are not just a stat. That is 200 negative yards that should be added to his total yards gained.
Rancid: Yes, the thought that KO is a better fit with Ron Turner has crossed my mind and thus why I'm to that point.
Speaking of that Denver game: Grossman sacked 3 times.
sack 1 - 2nd and 8 from Denver 31. Grossman sacked for a loss of 11 yards. We ended up punting.
sack 2 - After penalties, 2nd and 29 from Denver 35, sacked for loss of 8 yards, we gained 17 yards next play with a great AP run to get into field goal range. Lucky for us.
sack 3 - 2nd and 12 from Chicago 39, fumbled ball - TO (yes, jail break situation, but he fumbled) Fortunately we blocked the ensuing punt and scored a TD on that great run by AP and our line.
He also fumbled inside the 10 yard line.
We got pretty fortunate in that game. Especially since Hester returned a punt and a kickoff for a TD. Yes, there were drops, but it happens. Just like fumbling the ball at midfield when you were driving pretty well and fumbling the ball in the red zone.
I really wouldn't point to that game to show he took better care of the ball as he had 3 TOs.
Do you really think he would have had 107 more yards if even half of those drops don't happen? Is that the game Hester dropped the ball on a deep pass? Wasn't that Min? I don't really remember the drops, but I'm sure there were some yards, but he only had 193 yards passing (with 39 yards in OT) and some dropped passes were 10 yards or less downfield.
January 9, 2008
#115 Pissed Off said . . .Also, in the Giants game Grossman lost 52 yards getting sacked 6 times. Those yards are not taken into account with the QB rating either.
sack 1 - 2 yard loss - then we actually scored on that first drive! Wow. A sack overcome!
sack 2 - 13 yard loss - corner blitz - surely he had SOME time to see this. Also, the 3rd and 11 was the result of not watching the play clock. Then, it almost resulted in a safety. As it was, it led to a tipped punt (since we didn't have the normal room to work with) and a Giants TD on the next drive.
sack 3 - 3rd and 6, 3 yard loss, dead drive
sack 4 - great plays, leading to a 3rd and goal and the 6, sacked for 11 yard loss, which made the FG more difficult than it had to be, especially if he only loses 5 or 6 yards
sack 5 - great plays, leading to 3rd and 10 at the 14, loss of 14 yards, once again, making the FG more difficult than it had to be (46 yards this time)
sack 6 - 3rd and 3, sacked for a loss of 9 yards, 3 and out, punt
You don't always avoid the sacks during the play, other QBs know where the pressure is going to come from or have a feeling, Grossman just doesn't seem to have it. He has no internal clock, nor an ability to avoid the rush on a semi-consistent basis.
Of course, those were just stats that were meaningless to the actual game.
January 9, 2008
#116 Mike said . . .I would agree with all of that Phil.
Al to the rescue, Papa Bear backpedaling now.
Mikebdot read Als post #111, if some of those things dont happen (playing against best pass rushing teams, lots of WR drops for TDs and bad routes etc) you arent dumping on Rex as hard right now. Its not all his fault. We can agree to disagree. This debate is getting tiresome.
January 9, 2008
#117 mikebdot said . . .Anybody who thinks Lance Briggs is really staying in Chicago is nuttier than squirrel shit.
Interesting that Lovie whacked linebacker coach Hardy Nickerson after only one season on the job. I get the sense that Lovie is going to work like a demon to get this defense turned around and that he isn't going to take any prisoners. It will be interesting to see which players he dumps too.
January 9, 2008
#118 Papa Bear said . . .PO'd: I agree. :) Most of the time, I'm really just bored at work and being a contrarian seems like fun.
I been as excited I can be about Grossman for the past 4+ years. I just don't see how I can continue to get pumped up about him. Somehow we've ignored the fact that his only healthy season was last year, yet Mike Brown has been thrown under the bus. The difference is Mike Brown is a proven commodity and Rex still has capabilities rather than actualities.
Do you not agree some of those sacks hurt more, especially fumbles against Denver? When you lose more than 8 yards on a sack, you did something wrong as the QB. At least, that's my feeling.
Plus, most of this is moot since I still hate Ron Turner and I feel he is the reason for a lot of our failures this year.
Also, another comment about something completely unrelated: Hardy Nickerson is no longer our LB coach. Sup with that? I wonder if he was asked to leave? He didn't do much for Hillenmeyer. Speaking of which, do people here still love him?
January 9, 2008
#119 nutjob said . . .Uhhh Al...
Every QB on this team has had WRs drop the ball, it's part of QB'ing this squad. KO had Bradley drop a long bomb, Moose drop a TD in the end zone, and Olsen not able to get his feet in bounds for another TD.
January 9, 2008
#120 Phil from SATX said . . .Anyone else read the Ced article on chicagobears.com. This guy makes me sick ihope thye bring in turner he is great
January 9, 2008
#121 Pissed Off said . . .Okay, I just read it. I'll pose a question. Why does Ced B sound so much like some of our coaches, i.e. Harry Hiestand and Lovie Smith?
It's not my fault. I think I played pretty well. There's always going to be criticism - people don't know what they're talking about.
Sound familiar? Ced wasn't created by Lovie, but his horrible, offputting attitude seems to thrive very nicely in this environment where coaches say the same thing and when he can say these ridiculous things and not get taken to task for them.
Again, Ced's an ass, but it's also coming from the top.
Jury seems to be out between the two papers as to what happened to Nickerson (although Mike apparently has some "inside" information).
Either way, this coaching staff IS too inexperienced, and the one exception is a guy who's VERY experienced at being AWFUL. (rhymes with... oh whatever, you know.)
January 9, 2008
#122 Al in WI said . . .Mikeb, your #1 devils advocate. Thats all I can say. You can continue to get pumped about Rex cuz he has more potential than anyone here since like forever. I just want to see a full season of "post benching Rex" I think he will be fantastic. Not Brady or Manning fantastic but great nonetheless. Regarding the Mike Brown thing its apples to oranges. Defense has always ruled in this town and even if Rex has a great next two seasons he'll be scrutinized cuz he's a QB in Chicago.
I also never said that NONE of the sacks were his fault. I feel that in 2006 he held the ball a lot and as well at the begining of the year but since the benching I think he was making quick decisions and working with what he had. Again I am done now with this sack conversation being the QBs fault but I will say that other QBs behind that line could have looked worse. QBs get sacked, it happens all over the NFL, not just here, and they lose yards on sacks, all of em. And I'm with you on the Turner thing, I dont think he did Rex any favors maybe making this all moot.
Papa Bear, I get it you love Kyle Orton, you get butterflies when he takes the field but prepare to be severely disappointed in him. His accuracy is horrible, his beard is troubling, and his decision making is slow. Good luck with him, he's a good backup, thats all and was it you that gave me his record as a starter? Dude, the D won virtually every game for him that year, we were about the best D in the league that year and I think only once did he help the offense put up more than 17 points in a game or something like that. Since your a stat guy go ahead and look at his stats from that year.....and then try to tell me he deserves that record. Rex had a 29th (?) ranked D this year and last year they had streches with injuries that they werent very good.
January 9, 2008
#123 Bill said . . .Papa Bear, Kyle had one dropped td pass in his games Grossman had several which would dramatically change what his stats look like. (Not to mention the results of some of those games) And therefore his stats are not indicative of how he played in some of those games.
Also you seem to have missed my point that he played versus stronger pass rushes than either Griese or Orton. SD, NYG, and Seattle are all very good pass rushing teams, and exposed our line badly.
Yes, one of the weaknesses of Rex's game has been his pocket presence at times, especially in the bad games of '06 and the Dallas game this year. But having said that, he made some dramatic improvement in that area when he returned. He ran a lot more, and stepped up in the pocket. The problem was Terry Metcalf plays up in the pocket and he got killed up there too. The solution to these problems, is for him to continue to get better, to get lineman that can actually block, and finally to get more recievers who can catch and actually get open.
Regarding Mikeb's points about the Denver game. I'll take that arguement. First off go back and read Jeff's column when he details the reasons he felt Rex would have had a 300 yard game if not for the drops. Secondly take into account the 30 yard td hookup to Olsen that was called back because of penalty, then add the 30-40 yarder dropped by Moose that ended up a PI call. With those two we're talking 60-70 extra yards and TD. Moose also dropped about a 15 yard pass in the 3rd and a 10 yard touchdown in the first quarter. Olsen had another drop in the 10-15 yard range on the last drive as well. So that should get you awful close and there were other drops I'm not recalling either in that game that would have made the difference.
And as for the Giants game, that was the game Hester dropped the 77 yard touchdown pass that would have put the Bears up 14-0. That pass would have put him in the 350 range for that game.January 9, 2008
#124 mikebdot said . . .Whoah! I don't read the site for a while and a hockey game breaks out!
January 9, 2008
#125 Mike said . . .Al: You could add similar stats to Orton or Griese just as easily. The point remains, he had 3 turnovers that put us into overtime. We should have won that game handily.
In the Giants game we could have had TDs instead of FGs, and we could very easily have had two missed field goals there as well.
Po'd: Yes, I'm a devil's advocate at times. I said that. But the fact remains, he was the 4th most sacked guy in the league, even backups that came in to mop up injury riddled seasons.
I don't understand the notion that Rex stepped up in the pocket more (than when?). Last season he wasn't sacked very much at all actually. There was a lot of pressure sometimes and that probably caused some of his INTs. I'll gladly take a sack over an INT any day. But to lose more than 6 or 7 yards on a sack is not completely on the line. Nor is getting sacked by a cornerback at your own goal line.
And yes, we had quite a few offensive penalties this season. All the QBs had to deal with that. It was a very undisciplined year for us once again. I don't know why this is finally news to people. I guess it's only news when you lose football games.
PO'd: We can definitely agree that our D played much better last season, which is fairly obvious. We had one of the best turnover ratios (if not THE best, can't recall) and this season we had one of the worst. A lot of that was losing Brown and Vasher for all/large amounts of the season. Plus the guy we were grooming to wreak havoc with Harris couldn't do so once again. The loss of Tank probably hurt us more than we think. Walker and Adams played ok, but there were not as many games where we dominated the line of scrimmage putting people into the backfield to rough up the opposing QB or cause them to throw poorly for easy INTs. I will blame some of that on playing Anderson rather than A. Brown. That was plain stupid.
The question I was posing about Rex though is "do you even think we'll get another injury free season out of him?" I was on the Mike Brown bus at the beginning of the year not buying into the "injury prone" label, but I was so wrong and don't want to make the same mistake in that regard either. He's dashed our hopes to show us who he is in 3 out of 4 seasons.
January 9, 2008
#126 Tone Capone from Jersey said . . .Cedric Benson is a guy who worked his ass off at Texas to ensure that he would get a big money NFL contract. He got the dough, then decided to "retire in place." Lets face it, the guy doesn't give a fuck. He got his $17 million signing bonus and said screw it, I ain't going to bust my ass anymore. I got my money.
Am I wrong? Has Cedric Benson ever said something intelligent or motivating?? Remember when he spouted off during his contract holdout?? And it's not like this is the first time he has come out to say "it's not my fault so get off my fucking back dude." This is a guy who actually yawns on the sidelines during actual fucking football games.
January 9, 2008
#127 Al in WI said . . .R.I.P. Jim Dooley
January 9, 2008
#128 mikebdot said . . .Second that thought on Jim Dooley, interesting career of a man from a bygone era. He was a Bears guy, not a simple a pro coach who bounced around the league. Refreshing loyalty.
Anyway, Mikb we have to seriously disagree about that Giants game. We lost that game because of our wonderful coaching staff which can't make adjustments on defense, and decided to stop themselves on offense. We got the lead because of the no-huddle and famously decided to stop using it because the Giants would eventually stop it. The second biggest reason we lost is availabe at the top of the page. The Giants dominated the line of scrimage and we weren't able to run the ball at all. That is also the reason with all 3 qb's we ended up kicking so many fg's instead of getting touchdowns. And the third biggest reason we lost was because our vaunted defense couldn't hold a 9 pt lead with 8 mins to go versus Eli Manning. Give me a break.
There are legit reasons to criticize Rex, but blaming him for the Ny loss is a major stretch.January 9, 2008
#129 Phil from SATX said . . .Al: I didn't blame him solely for the loss, so don't put words in my mouth. In fact, my only point was that sacks have visceral consequences, they aren't just stats. We also had 10 penalties for 71 yards and they had 2 for 10. That hurt us bad, especially on the first 3 and out mentioned below. Also, a false start penalty by Desmond Clark knocked us out of potential field goal range early in the fourth.
The Giants got the ball with 11:45 left on the clock. That was after a 3 and out by us which was directly preceeded by a 3 and out by the Giants. Then they scored and we had another three and out and they scored again. Rex went 1 for 3 for 8 yards and a 9 yard sack on those two 3 and outs. Playmakers make plays, he didn't make enough to win. He almost did to win the game at the end, but we came up short. Also, he had 46 pass attempts that day, which made him have more yards passing, 6.4 yards per attempt isn't that good, plus 54% passing, including his taking 6 sacks. We had a terrible time running the ball. That didn't help matters.
I agree, we should have used no huddle more, but Turner is retarded and apparently doesn't believe in it. We functioned much better as an offensive unit in the two minute offense all year, even with Griese. We also seemed to get Olsen open when he ran more than 10 yards downfield, same with Clark. Why they didn't do that more frequently is beyond me, especially in an effort to open up the run game a bit by making the linebackers step back first instead. Turner is dumb, that is clear, but Grossman didn't have a perfect game and had the opportunity to gain some first downs to put the game away or extend drives and came up short. Sue me for pointing it out.
January 9, 2008
#130 Phil from SATX said . . .Mike, for once I agree with you on CB. Only way I can figure it. I don't think he loves football (maybe more like Ricky Williams than just his looks). He's rich now beyond his wildest dreams and probably couldn't care less if he drops out of football.
Sad, hopefully we're wrong.
January 9, 2008
#131 PolygonHell said . . .And just an aside, MikeB and Al, how the hell do you remember these details? I am dumbfounded. (or maybe just dumb)
January 9, 2008
#132 Pissed Off said . . .A lot of our 3 and outs can't be hung on any of the Quarterbacks, the play calling was assanine at times, leaving us commonly in obvious passing situations on 3rd downs. Not to mention penalties on the line, dropped passes etc etc.
The Offense as a whole this year just couldn't execute anything on a consistent basis, I wouldn't hang that on any one player, or even just the O-Line.
January 9, 2008
#133 jeff said . . .Mikeb I dont know if you watching these games or not but several times after coming back from his benching Rex stepped up in the pocket and ran for positive yards instead of going backwards for a sack. Glad we at least agree about the defensive issue. I look at Rexs injury situation differently because he DID play a full season last year, Mike Brown hasnt for 4 years, if he plays all next year I will look at him like I do Rex, not injury prone. We call MB injury prone cuz he hasnt been in service for 4 years, Rex was all of last year, the most recent stuff stays in the mind. Also when Rex gets hurt its on the O-line for not protectin him. Mike may be getting hurt tackling wrong or doing something on his own, something that would be more his own fault since he can control where he goes, how he runs and plays etc. BTW did you know all QBs in the NFL get sacked for losses, not just Rex. Its the O-Line problem mostly. Rex is who he is. Its just mind numbing hearing you continually blame everything on him like in post #128. I am seriously done with this.......for a while. Every quarterback in the NFL loses games and every QB in the NFL throws incomplete passes, INTs, etc. NOT JUST REX. Your blinders arent allowing you to see that there are other issues on this team that lead to the losses. Its not up to the QB soley to win the game, this is Chicago, Defense wins games remember. I'm going to pull my hair out!!!!!!! AHHHHH!!
January 9, 2008
#134 mikebdot said . . .you folks sure is having a good ol' time ain't ya'll? i'll put something new up on the site tomorrow most likely....nothing new to report so i'll bring the weekend picks maybe.
January 9, 2008
#135 Megan said . . .PO'd: I don't know if you read my posts or not but #128 surely wasn't one where I blame Rex for everything. My god man. Only one paragraph says much about him. Not sure how that means I blamed him for everything. I also point at that the defense held the Giants to a 3 and out only to see the offense go 3 and out themselves, then they were scored on. Then we went three and out again, then we were scored on again.
If every team has QBs that lose football games, why were you so pissed off that Griese did the same thing? He's just an NFL QB after all.
I agree, Rex stepped up on occasion, but he obviously didn't make enough plays as we lost the game. Your argument is that he improved after being benched. I guess my point about Rex getting sacked the 4th most times in the league as a percentage of times dropping back to pass (10%!) means nothing to you. At all. It's all the O-line. Great. We're back at "Rex is awesome" vs. "I don't care who we bring in, I'll cheer the muthafucka on".
For the last time, I'm not blaming losses on Rex alone. I'm arguing the point that we can't possibly get better without Rex. That's just plain goofy to me. We could make all sorts of deals to get a QB from another team. I'd be down to trade players, picks whatever to get a quality QB. But if we sign him to an incentive laden deal, so be it. He can compete and we'll see what's up next year. No biggie.
January 9, 2008
#136 Rancid said . . .PO'd,
you look kinda cute bald.
( I was going to put an emoticon there but, just so darn sick of them)
XXOOJanuary 10, 2008
#137 Phil from SATX said . . .We lost our internet at work yesterday and so I read all this today . . .
Damn I hate the offseason
January 10, 2008
#138 DTB said . . .I was just nosing around Donovan McNabb stats to learn more about him. He doesn't throw INT's at all - something like second all time in best throw/int percentage. That's real good. But he doesn't score very many points, at least in this year. If you take out the 53 point aberration against the Lions, he averaged 17 points. Not good enough to help us if he can do no better with the Bears. However, the previous year the scores were much higher - nearly 26 points a game until he was hurt in the 10th game of the season. He always posts pretty good QB ratings, although I will comment that he gets a 91 in a loss where his team only puts up 16 points. So throw that in when you talk about the flaws of the QB rating.
The Eagles feel their WR corps are no good (kind of like us), which McNabb has seconded by saying he needs more weapons.
Here's some comments from an Eagles blog as they're analyzing free agent WR possibilities:
"The only other free agent WR option likely to make a real impact next year is Chicago's Bernard Berrian. Berrian is a speedy deep threat that doesn't have great size. He's also looking for huge money. He already turned down an extension from the Bears with $8 million in guaranteed money and recently hired none other than Drew Rosenhaus as his new agent. Berrian is looking to get #1 WR money despite never really having #1 production. This year was the best of his career and he had less receptions, less yards, and less TDs than Kevin Curtis. No thanks."
and a comment on that link:
Berrian = Todd Pinkston 2.0
Back to McNabb, he also has missed games due to injury in I think 4 of the past 6 years. So you have to factor that in as well when you're looking at giving up big draft picks for him.
By the way, I hadn't heard that Berrian passed up an extension - is that true? If so, that sucks, at least Briggs was a top linebacker when he passed on his extension.
Just some Thursday morning thoughts, nothing much happening today. So let's decide, do we want McNabb or not, and at what price? Let's have some justification with opinions too.
January 10, 2008
#139 Rancid said . . .Todd "One in the stink, Two in the"
Pink-stonJanuary 10, 2008
#140 Phil from SATX said . . .At this point I like McNabb for a second rounder. I got to watch his last two games and he looked mobile again. His passing is decent, which is why if he's not healthy, he's not nearly as good.
This would be depending on the assumption we bolster the O line. Take McNabb with the line we have now and you might as well send Tanya Harding after that knee and save some time.
I only offer a 2nd because he is still an injury risk who since his first injury has not been able to string together a solid run of healthy games. Until he can do that he isn't worth more than that to me.
Should Rex sign elsewhere, I would consider raising the price as it increases our level of desperation at the position
January 10, 2008
#141 Pissed Off said . . .That's a good point Rancid - if we're unsuccessful with Rex, McNabb becomes a must-sign. Unless you want J.P. Losman, which I don't think any of us do. One question on McNabb - how's his downfield accuracy in getting long balls to Hester, Berrian or Bradley? I read that he used to have a below average yards per catch.
January 10, 2008
#142 mikebdot said . . .I think McNabb is OK for asking for more weapons like the Pats got for this year and look at em. The problem is that poeple will go play for the Pats for less money cuz they know they'll get a ring.
BTW Kevin Curtis is damn good, he's twice as good as any WR we have here.
January 10, 2008
McNabb's yards/completion is 11.6. Peyton Manning is at 12.0. Grossman 12.1. Tom Brady 11.5.
Which is why I don't think yards per completion is a stat that says much.
He's middle of the pack in that stat among active players:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_per_cmp_active.htm
He led the league in that stat last season though, this year it was Derek Anderson.
January 10, 2008
Here at DaBearsBlog, you are free to kill us or the Bears as you so wish. You are not free, however, to be an asshole. So if you spew racism or ill-meaning foul language (cursing about football is just fine) or anything of that ilk, your comments ain't gonna last long, jerk.
