Interestingly enough, both Brendon Ayanbadejo and Lance Briggs are headed to the free agency market for the same reason: they believe the Chicago Bears undervalue their play at linebacker. Briggs wants the contract deserving of a top tier defender and will take the route of Rosie Colvin and Warrick Holdman, neither of which has ever reached the level they established beside Brian Urlacher. Dejo simply wants to be in that linebacker rotation and deserves to be - but our elite coaching staff does not think so and thus are preparing to lose the best special teams tackler in the NFL.
Stay tuned to the site as I'll be updating as I get information regarding anything and everything Bears.
1:30 PM
BEARS CUT RUBEN BROWN
Two points to be made about this. (1) The Bears now have released 2/5 of their starting offensive line from 2007 and this should clearly enter them in the Alan Faneca conversation. (2) Why is Adam Archuleta still on the goddamn roster?
1:34 PM
LOVIE EMPHATIC ABOUT WANTING MIKE BROWN BACK
Didn't see in the Tribune till just now but Lovie is quoted extensively this morning at the Scouting Combine as wanting Mike Brown back on the team next year. If he hasn't been cut yet, might he not be getting cut at all?
2:46 PM
BEARS WILL NOT FRANCHISE BERRIAN
Jerry Angelo announced the Bears will not use the franchise tag on Bernard Berrian, almost assuring they're going to lose their top wideout to the free agency market. The Bears now have major holes at every single offensive position outside of center and tight end.
7:32 PM
JERRY ANGELO CONFIRMS HE WANTS MIKE BROWN BACK
From the Suntimes:
"We hope so,'' Angelo said when asked if he envisions a role for Brown this year. "Right now all I can say is he is under contract, he’s rehabbing, everything is going real well. Hopefully, by another month Mike will be given a clean bill of health and we’ll go from there."Brown is rehabbing in San Diego, where he resides in the offseason now.
#2 RandomName said . . .It's possible Briggs could break the bank with his next contract. I don't blame him for wanting to dip his toes in the water. I also don't blame the Bears for not wanting to commit to two monster contracts at the same position.
If nothing else, JA & Co. have shown they can find defensive sleepers in middle rounds in the draft. We can find a linebacker to fill in the hole Briggs will leave, even though Lance is an absolute animal.
February 21, 2008
#3 T said . . .I knew we'd probably lose Briggs. But Ayanbadejo ?!?!
NO!!why??
February 21, 2008
#4 Phil from SATX said . . .Might be many who disagree but I would rather keep BA than Briggs. Hope the Bears find a way.
February 21, 2008
#5 RandomName said . . .The epitaph on the BA deal may look very similar to the TJ parting - BA wants something we apparently can't give him - a chance to contribute at linebacker. While I understand both sides on this, it's a shame, and let's hope it doesn't end as disastrously as the TJ deal did (at least regarding 2007).
On the other hand, I can't see another team expressing major interest in BA as a linebacker - his value has been clearly established as a special teamer. Can he be effective in both positions? Standard answer would be no. So we'll see where that one ends up.
Others will pay more than we can for Briggs, because those who will be looking will not already have a Brian U on their roster - they'll be looking to Briggs as their #1. That's why he's gone.
February 21, 2008
#6 craig said . . .http://profootballtalk.com/DerekSmithDumpster.jpg
I find the brick hands of moose to be sad and true. bye Moose, you're a good guy.
February 21, 2008
#7 Jimbo said . . .Unfortunate, but I think we'll survive without them.
February 21, 2008
#8 Pissed Off said . . .Jeff, I'm heading to NYC for a bachelor party in a couple of weekends. I need some good bars to hit up. Maybe a few houses of ill repute as well.
February 21, 2008
#9 Al in WI said . . .I too think we can survive without them. For the price I actually would value keeping Brendan more than Briggs for his Special teams skills. I think Jamar or whomever is next to Brian will look just fine next year and produce at a high level. And contrary to the douche who impersonated me on the last thread, I dont value Btwice that much. I actually would rather him leave if we can get another decent free agent. Its a money thing again. Though with Moose gone I think B2 could step up nicely.
February 21, 2008
#10 Al in WI said . . .I have to agree that we can survive without these guys. BA has been in the NFL for a long time and has played only sparingly at linebacker. He just isn't an everydown player for a full season.
Briggs will be missed, but he has made his intentions clear. He wants to be the highest played d player in the NFL. He's good, but he isn't that good. For a linebacker to get that kind of money he needs to be a pass rusher, and Briggs isn't.
The best linebacker to play next to Urlacher was Rosevelt Colvin, not Briggs. We can recover.
Keeping Berrian is a must though. The defense should be good enough to absorb these losses without missing too much. The offense can not go into next year without a proven playmaker.
February 21, 2008
#11 Scott said . . .The Bears cut ties with Ruben Brown today as well.
February 21, 2008
#12 J said . . .Ruben Brown gone:
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/huddleup/2008/02/bears-cut-ruben.html
February 21, 2008
#13 Phil from SATX said . . .Technically, we didn't cut Ruben. He is a free agent on 2/28 just like Briggs, Berrian, and Ayanbadejo. We just chose not to offer him a contract.
February 21, 2008
#14 Pissed Off said . . .Another $2.2MM freed up to spend on others! Another great move, and one I was not so sure they were going to make. THERE WILL BE NEW BLOOD ON THAT LINE. Creating two holes on the Oline is the best news for 2008 by far. Maybe Beekman gets a chance to beat out Garza for a starting job too - I sure wouldn't mind upgrade at his position. Beekman, Kreutz, Tait plus fill in the blank twice! Even if we move to middle of the pack on oline, think of what an improvement that will be over last year's Must Be Worst in the League!
There was no room for BA on a "linebacker rotation" - when there is hardly any such thing as a rotation at that position, unlike defensive line - and we've been grooming Williams and presumably Okwo to fill in for the to-be-empty Briggs spot. At the price BA's going to command for his special teams skill, that will represent overpayment for his role as a linebacker, so I'm not sure how he's going to sell this to other teams.
Keep doing the right thing, Jerry - no mistakes have been made yet!
February 21, 2008
#15 J said . . .I'm not sure if I get the Ruben Brown cutting, he's old but still a damn fine player, was he wanting too much $ for one or two more years?
February 21, 2008
#16 jdawg said . . .Pleased to hear that Brownie is coming back. He makes everyone around him better. It seems like each time Mike got hurt our defense just tanked. Each year when I go to training camp, Mike is always the one who is barking and talking smack to get the defense fired up. He is the heart and soul of this defense, even more so than Urlacher. Get healthy and Stay there, MIke.
I am looking forward to see if Archuleta can rebound playing a full season next to Mike. This past season, Adam was asked to play more in space, which we all know he can't do well. He was out of position which affected his tackling (bad angles, whiffs, etc.) too. Let Brownie play center field, and keep Adam in the box to stop the run.
February 21, 2008
#17 Phil from SATX said . . .The Mike Brown statement doesn't surprise me. When he's back there we have the #1 D in the NFL. I just hope he's back there more often.
Briggs will test the market. I hate to say this, but he'd be a fool not to. Someone is going to overpay. We'll see who it is and if its enough more than the Bears are willing to offer to get him to move.
The BA thing is confusing to me. He had his chances to make an impression when HH was hurt and couldn't. I give Love and the staff a lot of grief for offensive talent evaluation, but not so with the D.
February 21, 2008
#18 mikebdot said . . .J - is it true? Where'd you hear it? More great news if so! I'd much rather spend money on the chance of Mike Brown being healthy than some of our other alternatives. If he's healthy, you just hit a home run.
PO'd, Ruben Brown is 36 years old. Did you watch him play this year? The left side was worse than the right side, if that's possible - and that's with John Tait over there! Brownie WAS a great player for us, but that sun has set. I was worried that they weren't going to let him go because of Angelo's comments at the end of the season, but they were apparently what I had hoped - kind words about a long time warrior who deserves kudos, respect and our thanks - but not a place on our roster.
Give it up J, where's the news about M Brown coming from?
February 21, 2008
#19 J said . . .Ruben Brown's shoulder was all jazzed up and finally he went on IR. I doubt he's even healthy enough to play. He'll probably just retire.
February 21, 2008
#20 jdawg said . . .This from chicagosports.com.....
Smith said the Bears intend to keep safeties Mike Brown and Adam Archuleta but the team has cut ties with offensive guard Ruben Brown. Both safeties are recovering from season-ending injuries.
"Mike's another part of the core," Smith said. "Even though he's missed a lot of games, Mike means quite a bit. I'm a big Mike Brown fan, always have been. Yes, we would definitely like to have Mike back with us."
February 21, 2008
#21 Phil from SATX said . . .AA is still on the team because we paid him almost all of his money last year.
February 21, 2008
#22 Mike said . . .Awesome awesome better than awesome news. Not missing a beat, Jerry! Keep going! You're regaining my trust with each move so far!
Thanks J! Knowing that Mike will be given yet another chance to try to stay healthy, coupled with D. Manning, Kevin Payne and Brandon McG, does this maybe change the draft and/or FA picture for safety? Anyone?
February 21, 2008
#23 Mike is gay said . . .Teams get in trouble when they cave into the demands of players that go against their own internal assessment of his talent and ability to help the team. Remember Antwaan Randle El? Washington was willing to let him be an every down wide receiver while Pittsburgh held firm and said no. Remember Desmond Howard? He too had visions of grandeur on the football field that went beyond his original team's assessement of his highest and best use. Brandon Aybandejo? If he wants to play linebacker and break the bank at the same time? Well then I'm okay with Angelo waving bye-bye. When football decisions get made with the heart instead of the head, then that's where trouble starts. And when you overpay at one position then that is what gets you into deep shit salary cap wise. There should be no robbing Paul to pay Aybandejo.
Is anybody surprised Lance Briggs is a goner? C'mon. We all knew this day was coming. Briggs is going to receive a staggering signing bonus and contract from somebody. The Bears will miss him, but they will recover.
February 21, 2008
#24 J said . . .Did you know I'm gay. I'm Mike
February 21, 2008
#25 jdawg said . . .Phil...My opinion, no need to draft a safety on the first day. We have way too many other more-pressing needs (OT, WR, QB, RB). Plus, Angelo is pretty good at finding talent at safety in the later rounds.
February 21, 2008
#26 said . . .best post by you ever Mike
February 21, 2008
#27 Jimbo said . . .Mike....Yes, I figured we'd lose Lance. He's a great player and we'll miss him. But just look at who is agent is (Rosenhouse), and the way they paraded around at the owner's meetings last year while still under contract with the Bears.
At least the cupboard is not completely bare. You gotta give JA credit for anticipating Lance's departure and getting two pretty good linebackers (Williams and Okwo) to battle for his spot.
February 21, 2008
#28 mikebdot said . . .When I read, "Smith said the Bears intend to keep safeties Mike Brown and Adam Archuleta," I spit out my coffee.
To say we need help at this position may be the UNDERSTATEMENT of the offseason.
I like Mike Brown, and I think he's got heart, which can carry him far. I think heart earned Eli Manning Super Bowl MVP. Heart can carry you back after being away after years... but just in case, here's to having a Plan B.
February 21, 2008
#29 minnie Mad Dog said . . .http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?STORY_ID=4390
That's the link for those of you who care. It would be nice to see those occasionally...like showing credit for your work...or, you know, something other than plagiarism.
February 21, 2008
#30 jdawg said . . .Of interest? The Vikings just released Dwight Smith who is, in my opinion, a pretty good free safety. Lots of INTs and supposed team leader, age about 27 or 28. He has provided a lot of "entertainment" here in Mn. with his off-the-field antics. That may be why the Vikes are letting him go. Would Lovie be more understanding?
February 21, 2008
#31 J said . . .at least they wouldn't have to Mapquest the county jail when it was visiting time.
February 21, 2008
#32 jeff said . . .jdawg....Our guys already have directions to the clink. Remember Tank?
February 21, 2008
#33 Al in WI said . . .reporting news isn't plagiarism. quoting people and not giving credit is plagiarism. that story you linked got to da site after getting to trib, suntimes and espn.
February 21, 2008
#34 J said . . .I like what I've heard about M Brown, and most of the moves so far. I don't like the news that we aren't going to franchise Berrian. Unless we get him signed in the next week, that will be a major loss. I know a lot of people on this site have faith in Bradley (I don't know why) but to say he's unproven is an understatement. He's never even had a 100 yard game guys. Yes, it is clear that he has a lot of physical ability. I think he could be a good player. But he's never done it on the field, even in college he was not a big time performer. And so far in 3 seasons in the pros he has been consistant, consistantly hurt that is it. He's blown both acl's in his career, and has had significant ankle injuries. Not exactly the resume of a guy you want to count on.
Re-signing Rex and Berrian will be major positive developements in the next week that have to happen.February 21, 2008
#35 jeff said . . .Not franchising Berrian? I know he's not worth $7 mil per year but is there any free agent out there who's significantly better? I think JA should have bit the bullet and franchised the guy, let him prove himself this year, and sign him long term next year. That way we have some stability in our WR core. Does anybody really believe that Mark Bradley can be a #1 receiver?? Or Hester a full-time #2 for that matter??
With Berrian gone, we need help BAD at wipe-out...er, wide-out.February 21, 2008
#36 mikebdot said . . .i think this is a bad day for the bears., contrary to a lot of the optimism from you guys. devin hester can not be our starting wideout next year.
February 21, 2008
#37 JB said . . .ok, copyright infringement then. my bad. not that i care, i just like to click through the links rather than seeking them out. the internets are fully of pithy comments and i'm certainly no exception.
February 21, 2008
#38 Phil from SATX said . . .well, let's put a spin on it. maybe, just maybe, JA didn't use the tag because he felt that he was close to a deal with B2, and that with the upcoming talks with grossman and B2, that it'd be worked out before FA started.
i don't really believe that, just throwing it out there.
I'm very surprised as the 'dejo situation. I figured he'd really want to come back. shows what i know.
February 21, 2008
#39 jdawg said . . .All this means is the BT didn't think Berrian is worth it - and I'm glad they apparently saw the same things I did, and we all did, this season - some great, some good, some bad, some weak, with the bad and weak seemingly happening at the wrong times. I think the toe they dipped in the water last year with franchising has shown them there's not much point in it - and at least with Lance, you knew he was going to be worth the money. The Bears want to make long term plans, that's always great but especially true this year, when SB is not necessarily imminent. They gave Berrian an offer that was likely very fair given what he has shown so far in his career - and not surprisingly, he thinks he's worth more. And this year, he'll get more.
What happens next is the Bears go after one of the free agents out there - if they happen to like one of them a lot, I bet they go hard after him. Maybe it will be the Bryant Johnson guy, while others chase Bernard and Randy. Maybe it will be Hackett. But I'm quite sure BT is not entering next year with our current stable plus a draftee, no matter how high they intend to draft one. They know neither Bradley nor Hester is proven. I'd say stop the freakout - someone will come over who will get you at least somewhat excited.
February 21, 2008
#40 jeff said . . .I think it needs to be said that we still may sign BB. We're just going to wait and see what he's offered.
February 21, 2008
#41 The Duke said . . .i think we have shaky qb, bad rbs and no wrs. not to mention only 3/5 of an offensive line.
February 21, 2008
#42 Pissed Off said . . ....and the re-building year has officially begun folks. At this rate I think the law firm of Lovie, Angelo & Co. are shooting for another playoff run by 2011. Should be a good season come 2011. I'll see you guys then.
But just for the record, I agree in not franchising Berrian. He ain't worth the $7.5 mil.
February 21, 2008
#43 J said . . .All signs are pointing to this being Rex's team next year. Maybe the BT thinks that he has had bad influences in TJ, Moose, Bernard and Ruben Brown. With the exception of Bernard all the other guys have been in the league for quite a while and maybe had a bad influence on Rex or maybe they were too mouthy and obsessed with themselves and thinking they can get on Rex's case and tell him what to do all the time cuz they're vets. With new guys being picked up in free agency at skill positions Rex will be the vet now on this team and none of the new guys are going to get on his case like Moose and TJ calling him out. Maybe this will all lead to Rex's success in 08. He wont have the pressure of whining vets yelling at him and telling him what to do. We all know Olsen wont cause a problem cuz he's too young, Dez loves Rex, Hester wont complain cuz he's too young, same with Bradley.
February 21, 2008
#44 Pissed Off said . . .We'd better make a huge splash for the offense in free agency. If we go in with only our current bunch plus draft picks, our offense will be worse than last year (if that's even possible). Relying on the draft for starters is an extremely risky proposition. We need at at a minimum 5 new starters on offense from free agency: 2 WR's, T, G, and QB (if Rexy is not resigned). The Bears traditionally have not been adept at big signings, but they better learn fast.
February 21, 2008
#45 mikebdot said . . .I was reading some of the comments on the trib site and I didnt realize that Ruben Brown went to the pro-bowl after the 06 season, thats just the season before last, and the only reason his play declined in 07 was because he was playing hurt, until he finally succumbed to the pain. This had better mean we are going hard after a top flight guard.
February 21, 2008
#46 JB said . . .http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=4385
"Buyer's market". Hooray.
We need to steal Jake Scott or some other guard for $4-5M per year. That'd be sweet.
February 21, 2008
#47 My Gut Feeling said . . .PO'd, that's like the craziest idea I think I've ever read on here.
By all accounts, Ruben Brown was a pros pro. I never hear any grumblings from him. B-Twice and Rex are attached at the hip and are essentially best friends on the field. Did you notice how his production goes down when Rex isn't in? And for all the negatives with Moose, he has stated more than a few times, that he signed on because he wanted to play with Rex. Finally, did you seriously just imply Thomas Jones was a bad teammate / glory hog? For shame sir.
I almost hope you're joking or that isn't really you because you are seriously nuts with that evaluation.
February 21, 2008
#48 jeff said . . .Rex will be back
Ayanbadejo will be back
Berrian will leave
Andre Davis will become a Bear
February 21, 2008
#49 Al in WI said . . .to duke and everyone else against franchising berrian...the contract offer they made to him, though not outrageous, would have paid him more this year and locked him up for the future. the franchise tag would have given him one year to become an elite receiver, something i believe he was well on his way to doing. i'm the least pessimistic guy around but how can any human being look at this team right now on offense and actually believe they're going to be competitive in the nfl. and of all these wide receivers being bandied about, i'd like berrian.
February 21, 2008
#50 J said . . .Ditto's Jeff. I don't understand why fans care about the McCaskey's money. Who gives a shit if they overpay for Berrian? They have the cash, and they have the cap space. It's a free market boys and girls, you are worth what someone is willing to pay you.
Does anyone think they're going to get a bargin in some other FA? They will have to overpay for whatever player they sign. And with $30 mil under the cap there is no excuse to letting your best offensive weapon leave the team.February 21, 2008
#51 The Duke said . . .Face facts:
Briggs = gone
Berrian = gone
Ayanbadejo = gone
Rex may be back if were the only team that'll let him compete to start.Does anyone really believe that the Bears will outbid all other teams for any of these guys? C'mon...this is the Bears we're talking about. Like Butkus said, "they throw nickels around like manhole covers".
February 21, 2008
#52 J said . . .Now you're speakin' my language Jeff. How on earth do the Bears expect to be competitive this season? All the signs point to it....and it's time everyone accepted it:
RE-BUILDING YEAR.
February 21, 2008
#53 jeff said . . .I agree, Duke. I hate to admit it. But its looking like one of those years where we'll be decent on D, but our offense will average about 9 points per game. We simply have too many holes to fill to get them all fixed in one off-season.
February 21, 2008
#54 Polygonhell said . . .right now we're not going to be good on either. we'll be significantly weaker in the run game without briggs and his triple digit tackles and we still dont have a safety. ugh.
February 22, 2008
#55 Mike said . . .Jeff, you see a bit glass half empty right now.
I think we'd all be complaining if we had more than 3/5 of last years line. Cutting players early shows does expose where the holes are.
I think they should probably have franchised Berrian, but it would only have been a stop gap, a way to defer filling a hole for 12 months. The Bears clearly have an idea of what they are willing to pay long term and if Berrian is on a totally different page it's not going to happen.
Either way I'd expect players like Berrian to wait until after free agency starts to make any decision.
I can't imagine anyone expected Briggs to sign, the Bears would have to restructure Urlachers contract to bring it in line with anything they offer Briggs so if they overpay it woud be more than just the cost of signing him.
February 22, 2008
#56 Mike said . . .The unfolding events at Halas Hall are proof that Jerry Angelo is in rebuilding mode. Make no mistake. Bernard Berrian and Lance Briggs are gone. Ditto Brendan Ayabandejo.
I don't know how any sane Bear fan can argue that the Bears are poised for a big season in 2008 when you examine the humongous needs this football team has on the offensive line and at wide receiver, running back and QB. Plus the loss of Briggs is a major blow, especially within the context of Brian Urlacher clearly being on the downside.
I agree with the moves Angelo is making, not withstanding this ridiculous love affair with the forever injured Mike Brown.
February 22, 2008
#57 Jimbo said . . .The unfolding events at Halas Hall are proof that Jerry Angelo is in rebuilding mode. Make no mistake. Bernard Berrian and Lance Briggs are gone. Ditto Brendan Ayabandejo.
I don't know how any sane Bear fan can argue that the Bears are poised for a big season in 2008 when you examine the humongous needs this football team has on the offensive line and at wide receiver, running back and QB. Plus the loss of Briggs is a major blow, especially within the context of Brian Urlacher clearly being on the downside.
I agree with the moves Angelo is making, not withstanding this ridiculous love affair with the forever injured Mike Brown.
February 22, 2008
#58 Mike said . . .Jeff asked three questions on February 12th...
"(1) Do you know who your starting quarterback will be in 2008?
(2) Do you know who your starting running back will be in 2008?
(3) Do you know who your number on receiver will be in 2008?"We still can't answer these questions. We're definitely in rebuilding mode.
It's pretty sad an NFL "Front Office" could let a team reach this state.
February 22, 2008
#59 jeff said . . .There is no question the Bears are in rebuilding mode. This team will be hard pressed to think about 7 wins in 2008. That being said I agree with the decision to let Bernard Berrian test free agency and leave if it comes to that. You don't slap the franchise tag on an enigma, particularly when that enigma is your so-called top wide receiver.
I'll say one thing. If Angelo is serious with his game plan, then I hope he extends it to his decision making at quarterback. Lets mercifully cut bait on Rex Grossman and identify a viable long-term solution at QB !!! If we're going to suck in 2008, I'd just as soon suck with the QB of the future taking the snaps.
February 22, 2008
#60 Pissed Off said . . .polygon, you're right. the half empty is called offense.
February 22, 2008
#61 I'm out of here.... said . . .Mike, you're a dumbass. This team isn't rebuilding. It's Super Bowl or bust next year. Grossman IS our long term solution for QB so you'd better get used to the idea. You're a pseudo-fan.
February 22, 2008
#62 Polygonhell said . . .This board has officially been taken over by the whack jobs and loons of the world living in Mom's basement (North Dakota and elsewhere).
For what it's worth, the Bears are rebuilding in my estimation. You don't acquire 40% of an offensive line, a new running back, at least one wide receiver and sort through a quarterback mess in one offseason. There is a lot of work to be done here.
I'm gone. Anybody else not named Pissed Off or Mike care to join me on another blog??? Is there a good other blog somewhere???
February 22, 2008
#63 Jeff said . . .Jeff, this is how I see it in my glass half full world (people at work would mock me for that).
The defense will be better than last year if we have less losses to injury, if we can shore up the O-Line we'll have some sort of offense, I think that has the potential to put us in the playoffs. And from there anything can happen (see Giants winning super bowl as evidence).
I don't expect world dominating offense in 08, but the Bears as an organisation are moving for the most part in the right direction. It's early in the year and we won't have any sort of clear picture until after the draft.
I'd still rather go into 08 with low expectations on ffense and be pleasantly surprised by offensive performances, than in 07 when everyone was so excited after camp only to be thumped in the gut week after week.
February 22, 2008
#64 CAK said . . .How the fuck is the defense going to be better with no Lance Briggs and a declining Brian Urlacher? Pull you head out of your asshole.
February 22, 2008
#65 CAK said . . .Ok this is getting out of hand. It seems jeff never capitilzes the "j" when he posts so #76 probably isn't him. I haven't posted in a long time, but all this name switching is manking me angry. I usally enjoy reading this, but is there anyway to lock in the display names?
February 22, 2008
#66 CAK said . . .Ok this is getting out of hand. It seems jeff never capitilzes the "j" when he posts so #76 probably isn't him. I haven't posted in a long time, but all this name switching is making me angry. I usally enjoy reading this, but is there anyway to lock in the display names?
February 22, 2008
#67 The Duke said . . .I guess it could steer new people away but it's too much...
February 22, 2008
#68 mikebdot said . . .At the end of the day, this article from Haugh in the Trib pretty much sums up what I've been saying for a while. The Bears are a cheap organization who refuse to pay money for any lick of talent. They'll be putting a patchwork team on the field next season because of their in-abilty to manage a football team properly. I don't know how Angelo still has a job. The Macasky's must give him a bonus for every million he stays under the cap. And to top it off? Ticket prices are going up.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-080221-bernard-berrian-bears,1,3787577.column
February 22, 2008
#69 mikebdot said . . .Jeff: He said the defense would be better with fewer injuries. If Vasher was healthy all year and Kevin Payne doesn't break his arm and Harris didn't tweak stuff and Urlacher was healthy last year (who, could have a better season this year, not just 4 or 5 games to end the season, if everything is fixed with the surgery), if Dusty Dvoracek can make it a full season, f Mike Brown stays healthy, we do have a safety. We can't bank on all of that, or even most probably, but I'm not sure how we could be any worse if we were overall a healthy D. Shit, Williams could wind up being a suitable replacement for Briggs. Or even Okwo.
Plus, hopefully, we'll be starting Alex Brown instead of Anderson and get back to our '06 form coming off the ends.
February 22, 2008
#70 Phil from SATX said . . .Oh, sorry 'jeff'. my bad. That can still be read as my optimism for our D. The O is another story. We'll see where free agency takes us. Surely we'll sign at least one free agent O-lineman.
February 22, 2008
#71 jeff said . . .It's gotten very ugly around here, and it's happened a few times in the last few days. Let's talk Bears football, shall we?
I honestly think many here are panicking early, and I don't get it. It's like looking at a car that's in mid-production and freaking out because it doesn't have its wheels yet. "That thing's not going to drive!" IT'S NOT FINISHED YET.
If you define rebuilding as needing to replace lots of pieces, then the Bears are definitely rebuilding - but only on O. Not on D or Special Teams. If you associate rebuilding with not winning, then I think you're dead wrong. After watching last year's offense, weren't you in favor of some rebuilding? I damn sure was.
LET THE PROCESS UNFOLD. I think everyone agreed with all the things Jerry was doing, maybe right up to the lack of a franchise tag on Berrian. You've got to remember - Berrian was NO ANSWER for this team last year. There are plenty of guys out there that have more experience that will catch more balls and prevent more interceptions than Berrian. And he still may become a Chicago Bear anyway.
Can a brand new offense gel for next year? SURE IT CAN. Think of it this way - how hard is it going to be for the offense to improve over last year? NOT HARD AT ALL. I still think Rex is the key continuity piece here - add him, and he will be able to throw it to any new WRs that come here. Running the ball is not hard - the new RB will not have a huge learning curve to climb up to use his natural talent, moves and speed to gain us 4-5 yards. We still have our Twin Anchors (great rib place) in TEA Time.
Just because we have now clearly identified holes and don't know the names on the jerseys who will fill those holes, doesn't mean it's time to freak out. Now I will agree that with WR, a veteran, probably two, is a MUST. I don't want to count on a rookie contribution, and that article MikeB posted indicates the same - don't count on rookie WRs. But BT will sign somebody, the day's rapidly approaching - they just can't do it yet.
And to whoever's participating in that ugly posting, trust me, no one here wants to read that shit. Go away.
February 22, 2008
#72 Phil from SATX said . . .I agree that this site is getting out of hand. I have decided to shut it down starting tomorrow. A new site will open soon. In the mean time you guys should all go bone each other from behind in the dumpster behind Taco Bell while wearing your Urlacher jerseys.
February 22, 2008
#73 Phil from SATX said . . .Hurray! I love jeff! Twice if he lets me.
February 22, 2008
#74 jeff said . . .Hey Duke, thanks for posting that article, I just read it and once more I completely disagree with David Haugh - something I almost never did in 2006 and something I did all through last year when he really seemed to lose his shit. I will remind you what I posted yesterday - the Bears, "who refuse to pay money for a lick of talent", were 11th on the total payroll list. They were paying more money than 21 other teams. So enough with that bullshit.
It's very easy to become GM for a day and decide that because YOU think Berrian should have been franchised, it must be their cheapness that caused them not to do it. I'm not buying it. I agreed with everything Angelo said in that article. Haugh suggests that saying you can't overpay for commodities is a great way to run a household but not a good way to get back to the SB. HE'S DEAD WRONG. It's a business and economics, and resource allocation, enter into every single decision. He's wrong as well, since the SB team of last year had the lowest payroll of any team.
BTW, first time I heard the Angelo quote about the coaches screwing up not playing Bradley last year. FINALLY. Read it and weep, Mike. Doesn't mean Bradley's going to be our savior, but it is finally the acknowledgment I've been looking for that they should have at least had his ass out there for more than they did, given the underperformances by MOOSE, the GREAT BERNARD BERRIAN and the unfortunately still-clueless DH.
The more I hear from Jerry in this off-season, the more I trust him. (Unfortunately, and the less I trust Lovie, but I do believe the leash has been much shortened, which I now firmly believe is a good thing). Let the man do his job.
February 22, 2008
#75 Pissed Off said . . .i'll keep an eye on things. it's basically one person who we can block pretty easily. and he ain't a newcomer.
February 22, 2008
#76 Pissed Off said . . .#60 not me
BTW Jeff I've emailed you about an issue I have with da site, I dont know if you've read it but I think it would help things
February 22, 2008
#77 Pissed Off said . . .BTW I still stand by everything I've said, even if JB doesnt agree (like I care) that this is Rex's team next year. I never said Ruben was a problem but Moose and TJ were problems for Rex and with them gone Rex will be the vet in the huddle and no one will be bitching.
I agree that we need to let things unfold as well. I dont think we will be better without Briggs but I agree that it wont hurt as bad as you might think since anyone playing next to Brian will problably pan out pretty well just like Colvin or Briggs. Its more of a money thing, just like it is with Berrian, I dont want to pay guys so over their value its ridiculous. Overpaying is OK at times but not like what these two apparently want.
February 22, 2008
#78 Phil from SATX said . . .#61, Mike, it doesnt make sense for you to un-invite yourself to another blog but please take you and all your Pissed Off, jeff, Maddux boy, and other impersonations elsewhere.
Phil, I must say that we've certainly had our disagreements in the past and we probably will still have them but I am loving your blogging as of late. We have a love/hate relationship I guess. Totally agreeing with you.
February 22, 2008
#79 Rancid said . . .People on the Bears I would overpay for:
Brian Urlacher
Devin Hester
Mike Brown
Tommie Harris
Des Clark
Lance Briggs
Brendan Ayanbedejo
Patrick MannellyThat's about it. Unfortunately, overpaying Briggs is not a real option because the numbers will be so astronomical. I think the Bears probably did provide an "overpay" contract offer to BA, but it's his desired role change that will apparently kill it. I would also add Rex Grossman to the overpay list for this year - I think he's that important to us. Berrian doesn't get on the list.
February 22, 2008
#80 JB said . . .I was out of town thursday, dang was there a ton of action on here. I think there are a few things I've been tinking about.
First I think that BA is still pissed we screwed his brother over. If he can find as good a situation elsewhere he just might take it. It's kind of our fault but I don't fully understand what happened there.
I think we need to find the middle ground between thinking we are going to the SB and thinking we will go 3-13 in a rebuilding year. We should not have the expectations we had last year, but we also should realize that with a few moves we should have the potential to be a good team. No one was going to pick the Gmen to win it all in the pre-season wafter losing Tiki. But no one picked them to suck either. What happened was that they made some changes, put together a good not great team, and then peaked at the right time. We are a team that has a chance to do that this season, if Jerry earns his check this offseason.
Finally here's my list of moves (draft not included) I'd still like to see in no particular order of importance.
Sign BB
Sign Rex
Sign Booker
Sign a FA Tackle who is under 30
Sign a FA Guard who is under 30 (sorry Alan)
Sign a FA safety (hamlin, wilson, williams)
Cut GreasemasterI keep telling myself I have to do one of the hardest things imagineable: Trust the Bears office to do well. But somewhere deep inside I feel like I will like what goes on this offseason, and so far I have.
February 22, 2008
#81 Pissed Off said . . .Po'd in # 42 "Maybe the BT thinks that he (Rex) has had bad influences in TJ, Moose, Bernard and Ruben Brown."
If Rex is signed and beats out KO for the starting job, I would think naturally that it's his team. However, suggesting that the BT traded away thomas jones, cut moose, allowed B2 to go to FA and cut ties with Ruben Brown to clear out veterans to give Rex full control of the team is, well, crazy. I can't come close to following your logic. TJ was a benson / finance situation. Moose was a production issue. Ruben was performance and age. And B2...who I think has a shot to be signed to a long term deal, is an economics thing. Again, berrian is rex's best friend on the field...B2 will get paid because he had such a great rapport with rex when things were going well. Moose signed on to play with Rex. TJ was a great team leader. R. Brown, please.
You're so rex-centric (actually, that's kind of a cool name, you should totally take it)...I know that it's the most important position in football but come on PO'd.
February 22, 2008
#82 Phil from SATX said . . .Still dont care what you think JB. Maybe I think your crazy. Thats my logic. Its not like I think thats the only reason they got rid of these guys but I am confident that it played a part. Moose is the main one I think it played a big part in, that along with his performace issue, age, money, etc. TJ was more money and not liking splitting carries but I still think that they thought they could exceed with Ced and that part of it was that TJ was pain in the ass....for Rex among others and this was going to be Rex's team going into the 2007 season.
Ruben Brown, no big deal. I dont think he was problem causer, I just threw his name in there but who knows whats said in the huddle or locker room by him or anyone else? And regarding B2, he's thrown Rex under the bus on some of his quotes I've seen last year. Maybe they are pals but I and certainly not you know that for sure. My pal wouldnt throw me under the bus to the media.February 22, 2008
#83 JB said . . .Since PO'd scratched my back, I'll scratch his - it was kind of a kooky idea, but we're allowed to think out loud around here - I remember when I suggested that Kreutz was deliberately sabotaging Rex - then I saw him do the same thing to Griese and Orton, so he must've hated everybody.
We throw lots of shit against the wall, see what sticks. I do think that with all the changes on O, if Rex is re-signed, EVERYONE will be looking to him as the glue - and in that sense, the effect that PO'd suggests may come to pass - it will be his team, at least for the moment. If Rex doesn't re-sign, then all moving parts have changed and we're looking at the pre-season Iggles in Invincible - who wants to come play? Anyone? Anyone?
February 22, 2008
#84 where's Olsen? said . . .I feel like walter sobchak from the big lebowski "Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a shit about the rules? Mark it zero!"
You're argument PO'd, is fundamentally flawed. As a result of the moves, this will become Rex's team (as stated by Phil & if he signs and can beat out KO), not the BT wanting it to be completely Rex's team and they are so behind him that they are cutting all opposed to him. Yeah, we can all think out loud and this is a safe environment, and I'm certainly not trying to attack you personally...what good would that do. But I think you're so far off the mark on this one that I want you to really reexamine your position. The BT is making decisions to put this team in a position to win, not to hand over everything to Rex. If that was true, he would have been extended at the end of last year.
February 22, 2008
#85 Pissed Off said . . .who cares? Ayanb plays special teams- he'll be replaced by any number of young, hungry guys. Briggs will be erased by Okwo or Jamar Williams when they bloom. One of them is the next Briggs easily.
February 22, 2008
#86 JB said . . .I think the BT wants it to be Rex's team, partially by default with all these guys exiting and partially by plan. I dont think the first think in their mind is "gee Rex doesnt like this guy so lets cut him" but I think it plays a part in their decision and a part in the direction this team is going. The direction being Rex being the QB of the immediate future and getting to the SB.
Please tell me how my position is "fundamentally flawed" in detail...citing the "fundamentally" part. I have examined my position and I stand firm.
February 22, 2008
#87 DTB said . . .I thought I did. You're arguing the wrong way. The moves that are happening are creating the possibility for what you believe (that this will be Rex's team, and again it's not an absolute), not This is Rex's team and therefore the BT is making these moves.
The reality is A + B --> C
You're arguing C is true and absolute, therefore, it cause A + B to happen or
C --> A + B
The arrow only goes one way. You're arguing backwards, fundamentally flawed. This isn't a matter of my opinon vs. yours, it a matter of perception...and yours is fundamentally flawed, or as I mentioned earlier "rex-centric".Again, if this truly was rex's team from the start, he would have signed an extension last year and not have been benched. Anyone else want to weigh in on this?
February 22, 2008
#88 mikebdot said . . .What is with the infatuation with re-signing Ayanbandejo? He is only a 4 phase special teamer. Let him go find a contract else where. Do you think that he'll turn any random return man into a great ruturner? No chance. Hester's success glorifies BA's role. Now if BA was Devin's personal protector on every return and made the key block on every return, I could understand. In the kicking game, he doesn't make every single tackle. When's the last time he created a turnover? Has he ever blocked a kick? I just dont get it. He wants to be the highest paid special team guy, good luck finding it elsewhere. Keep in mind AP will go back to a 4 phase special teamer, and make up for any drop off that dejo's vacancy will create. BA has rode the coat-tails of Hester's success for the last 2 years. Devin doesn't make the plays he does because of amazing blocking. If anything Hester makes his group look better than they actually are.
February 22, 2008
#89 Phil from SATX said . . .PO'd seems to be saying that everything the brain trust does is for the benefit of Rex Grossman. JB seems to be saying that everything the brain trust does is to put a solid football team on the field and has nothing whatsoever to do with Rex Grossman. If that is an accurate portrayal of what I've read I'm not sure how PO'd can have any confidence in the brain trust because that would be the dumbest way I can possibly imagine running a football team. Needless to say, I agree with JB.
I would think the "fundamental flaw" is that the brain trust didn't sign Rex to a long term deal already and thus they really don't "care" whether he comes back or not and thus their moves have nothing whatsoever to do with him, per se. In other words, they would have made the same moves regardless of who the QB was, it has nothing to do with Rex himself.
February 22, 2008
#90 Scott said . . .Interesting post, DTB, good take. I've always thought of BA as being more important on the defending side of STs, the gunner who makes the tackles, more than the blocker. But he doesn't make all of them, and DH doesn't require the world's best blocking, which btw is much less of an individual effort thing than the tackling side of it.
The only reason I've been so strong on wanting to keep BA is because the price is not high - kind of like paying a lot (relatively) to Patrick Mannelly for what he does - at $800M per year, he may be the highest paid guy in the league at what he does, but it's still not that much money.
Turns out, though, that money's not the real issue. Never would've thunk it.
February 22, 2008
#91 Pissed Off said . . .Just read Haugh's article on the Trib's web site where Haugh posits that JA is making a colossal mistake in not tagging Berrian or breaking the bank on Ayanbadejo or Briggs. I can't believe how much everyone is crying foul over management's decision to not overpay for players from a team that underperformed all season long. To me, the roster ought to be blown up a bit. Keep the core, stabilize the QB position but, otherwise, make some major changes. The folly would be in returning all of the same guys and expecting a different result. That's kind of a paraphrase of Einstein's definitition of insanity, I think. Anyway, I don't think they're rebuilding. This is a different NFL than the days of Walter Payton. A roster makeover can take place in one year. If it jels then you have a chance to make a run. There is still a ton of talent on the roster. And, remember, only two years ago people were shocked that the Bears were heading in to the season with Bernard Berrian as the starter. That turned out pretty well. I think receivers of his ilk can be found in a number of places -- maybe even on the Bears' current roster. It's way too early to call '08 a lost or rebuilding season in much the same way that it was too early for us to anoint them NFC champs at this point last year. But, that didn't stop us last year so I suppose the chicken littles will keep hollering for now. At least Mike's gone...although I will miss his idiotic misuse of big words and phrases.
February 22, 2008
#92 Phil from SATX said . . .I think your fundamental post about fundamentals is fundamentally flawed. The fundamentals dont fundamentally make a fundamental point.
My point:
"The reality is A + B --> C
You're arguing C is true and absolute, therefore, it cause A + B to happen or
C --> A + B" Uhhh.....WTF?Mikedbot you've never been on my side about any issue really so your dissing my take is neither a surprise nor a fundamental point that I care to argue with you about. You will vehemently agree with anyone who disagrees with me to try to bring me down wether your point is warranted or not.
Again, I think you (two) are not seeing anything from a point other than the concrete, thick skulled point that you want to see. I think some of the decisions the BT make are geared toward making this a team that Rex can succeed on. QB is the most important position on the field and you need guys to play with the QB so I think in the back of their mind they say "hey, this will not only benefit the team but Rex can benefit here too cuz it looks like he's going to be our QB."
February 22, 2008
#93 mikebdot said . . .Couldn't agree more, Scott. Listen to what Jerry says -
"Because you have the money doesn't mean you have to spend the money. You have to put values on players and then you have to stay disciplined to that, or else what you're going to end up doing is being unable to keep all these players."
If Berrian was worth the nearly $8MM for a one-year effort, then the Bears would have been seriously remiss in not tagging him. HE'S NOT WORTH ANYTHING CLOSE TO $8MM. We already did the analysis weeks ago - there are plenty of receivers out there who are better than him making in the $3-5MM range. Does anyone want to argue that there is any equivalency between a Lance Briggs (who at least came close to deserving his tag price) and a Bernard Berrian? You would have to be Bernard's mom to think so.
So why is everyone freaking out about the potential of losing Berrian? Only because of lack of imagination - you're looking at the remaining roster and gripping, without conceiving of the roster after FA's have been added. THERE WILL BE NEW, EXPERIENCED RECEIVERS ADDED TO THIS TEAM. If there isn't, we likely have a big problem. But we're not there, nor will we ever be there. I actually think Angelo has gone out of his way after the season to create transparency for the fans, and believe us, it was needed after two years of Lovie speak. I trust that he believes what he's saying, and what he's saying is we want BB, but at the appropriate, correctly valued price, and if we can't get him, there's others out there that will do.
Very good post Scott.
February 22, 2008
#94 mikebdot said . . .PO'd: It will benefit any QB. If Rex doesn't sign with us, what then? Are you still right? In fact, even if he signs with us, your point is basically a tautology.
I will agree with you when I think you're right. People disagree. Welcome to life.
As for your argument with JB, you basically just said "I don't understand your point, therefore I am correct". Mocking a point of view does nothing to support your argument.
And, actually, I'm tired of speculating about what's in the back of the brain trust's mind. It's a stupid thing to wonder about really. I can't believe I've wasted all this time. Actually, that's not true, I'm working, so it gets me closer to 4 pm! Woooo.
February 22, 2008
#95 Pissed Off said . . .Also, a point of fact, Scott, that quote about Einstein's definition of insanity was actually intended to be a disparaging remark about the quantum physicists, who actually turned out to be correct. If you do the same thing over and over and over eventually you'll get a different result, mostly because it's not "exactly" the same thing. Anyhow, it's normally a true statement, but Einstein turned out to be incorrect at the sub-atomic level.
Of course, the brain trust are carbon life forms and not at the sub-atomic level and thus if they had decided to not shake things up and they ended up doing just as poorly, they would look like fools. Now, with new players they can look like geniuses if they succeed and can blame any "failure" on any number of factors. It's kind of a win/win.
February 22, 2008
#96 Rancid said . . .So true Phil/scott, I think placing the correct value on people is key to running any sports business. I've said from the beginning that Berrian is overhyped and its just nice for him that sadly, he's the best available. We wont be the ones to overpay. Would I be happy if he signed a 3-5 yr deal...sure but not at 7M per year.
Mikedbot, thanks for the welcome to life, I didnt know people could disagree with me. You just do it out of spite cuz of our past wether you feel its right or not. And I never said or insinuated that I was right and JB was wrong, surprisingly you were half right, what I insinuated is that I dont understand all of your arrows and letters....period.
February 22, 2008
#97 Scott said . . .I had been mentioning Cowboys safety Ken Hamlin as a target in FA. I just learned that Dallas did tag him. So the only decent safeties I see on the FA market are Gibril Wilson and Madieu Williams
February 22, 2008
#98 DTB said . . .Thanks, Mikebdot, for the clarification. I've always liked that Einstein quote. Nice to have the context.
February 22, 2008
#99 SARG said . . .I didn't care to understand the arrows and letters either. I think that trying to flex your brain regarding theory or logic is really relevant while talking about the NFL. All is speculation.
Fact of the matter the Bears spent all of 2007 attempting to change Rex's game. They have tried to turn a homerun hitter into a singles hitter. I think I can complement PO's agrument by speculating that they are in fact attempting to give Rex free reign to be himself. If we all remember correctly, Rex was at his best when he was agressive, setting the tone early in games. If Rex is successful in leading the way, everything else will fall in line. The quarterback is THE difference maker and if Rex can respond to being the focal point, while playing to HIS strengths everything will work out just fine.February 22, 2008
#100 mikebdot said . . .What in the great name of GEORGE HALAS
are the crazy McCaskies up to now??!!!
They finally have the opportunity to get rid
of the infamous BEARS ANCHOR AND START WINNING GAMES, but NNNNOOOOO !!! now they're thinking of sinking the boat to Davey Jone's Locker and putting Grossman back in and with a
LONG TERM CONTRACT!!!!! don't tell me Uncle George isn't ROLLING OVER on
this one.!!!! WHAT ARE THEY THINGING OR NOT THINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!February 22, 2008
#101 mikebdot said . . .DTB: I think our success in '06 had much more to do with generating turnovers at the opponent's 40 yard line, and having a running game that would get a first down when it was 3rd and 2, and having atrocious pass blocking. It's hard to take shots into the endzone when you're out of bullets (i.e. you've punted the ball) or on your back.
PO'd: JB's arrows had no other significance to say simply "actions which preceed other actions are not necessarily the cause". Actually, I don't particularly agree with JB's arrows, I am of the opinion that none of the items are connected, A, B, or C. They're just events that only tie together if you want them to. I'm a relativist, so, I'm sure, TO YOU, the brain trust did such and such BECAUSE they want Rex back, but TO ME, they have nothing whatsoever to do with each. The offer they made Rex is on a checklist they have, right next to other moves they've made, like cutting Moose/Miller/Walker, not signing Ruben Brown again, etc.
February 22, 2008
#102 Phil from SATX said . . .*not having atrocious run blocking*
February 22, 2008
#103 mikebdot said . . .Lots of tagging going on this year, isn't there? Without researching it, I'm certain this year will easily establish the record for doing it. I wonder how much the Lance Briggs tag had to do with it, too -- the reason it was so little used was because there was the (real) perception that players got really pissed when teams use it. The Lance Briggs tag was a very high profile one, resulting in the predictable player anger replete with threats of holding out. However, cooler heads prevailed and he not only played but had a great season, thus justifying the high price paid for him (even if the ultimate win-loss record did not), and mending fences with management.
In time, I think NFL historians will look back and say that the Briggs tag and following season was a turning point for the tag itself.
BTW, the quote about throwing around nickels like manhole covers (the best quote ever about cheapness) came from none other than Mike Ditka, not Butkus. If memory serves.
DTB, you hit it again. That is exactly what happened to Rex, and to (gulp) Ron Turner's credit, it was a reasonable strategy to undertake at the time - it just didn't work. I'm hoping that Ron Turner's a lot smarter and a lot better coordinator than I give him credit for, and that he has already realized his mistake, as well as recognizing the upside that the True Rex offense can bring, in his plans for 2008.
Hope is in the air!
February 22, 2008
#104 Pissed Off said . . .poop, **pass* blocking*. Whatever. Almost end of week. Hooray.
February 22, 2008
#105 Pissed Off said . . .Rex is in the back of their mind on these decisions.
And Sarg, why dont you tell us what our best option for QB is in 2008? I'd like to hear this. Cuz it wont be McNabb, (not leaving) Anderson?, maybe Orton, Griese or rookie is your answer? Please enlighten me.
February 22, 2008
#106 JB said . . .BTW, great points DTB in #98. Even though Rex isnt officially a Bear for 08 yet, once it is decided (he's signed) that he is still a Bear I dont see any way he isnt the starter and this isnt his team. Maybe I'm just thinking ahead.
February 22, 2008
#107 mikebdot said . . .Mikeb and I are on the same page. I guess I was trying to simplify it by putting what i thought you were saying into a simple math form...but I'm sorry I did that. It should have been obvious to me that science has no place on a football blog.
Mikeb's points are right on, that all of these moves are made to put our team in a position to be competitive next year and into the future. If they believe that rex gives us the best chance to put a winner on the field, he will be back in the fold. And for the record, I don't think that these decisions in any way are giving rex more control of the offense (cuttings and not tagging, etc)...my arrows were meant to illustrate, although now i see they just muddled the picture.
It's not a particularly fun argument anymore...i figured you could follow where I'm going with it, but oh well. I seem to remember Mikeb having a science background, so maybe we have that in common. On to the next topic.
February 22, 2008
#108 Pissed Off said . . .What happens if Rex signs elsewhere? What do we do? You know, besides mock PO'd for being 100% wrong (rather than, let's say, 98%, as ALL of the players are on the back of JA's mind, so that's like 50 players right now, so there is only room for Rex on 2% of the back of his mind).
Do we consider trading for someone? Keep KO and Griese and draft another QB (I would like Dennis Dixon, I don't care about all you haters, even if he does look kind of retarded, but that wouldn't be too much of a change from Grossman really)?
February 22, 2008
#109 mikebdot said . . .I would be pretty shocked if they didnt land Rex given the position that that they're in needing him as badly as they do. When he does sign I've read that they plan to cut Grieseball....I'm assuming then that they will draft a rookie to be #3 next year.
All I've gotten out of reading your blogs Miked is that you are a smart ass. At least I can have a debate with JB and others without the shots. And explain to me how I'd be 100% wrong? Its not final that they've signed him and I havent said that it is.
And if we dont re-sign Rex, we have a lot bigger problem for next year than just the WR, O-line, Safety etc. I think its kind of in the back of everyones minds, including the BT, that Rex will be back and it makes one less problem to worry about but if Rex goes the other way and goes to another team the BTs problems just got overwhelmingly huge beyond thier belief.
February 22, 2008
#110 mikebdot said . . .PO'd: You would be 100% wrong because Rex couldn't possibly be the reason they're doing everything if he's not on our team and they don't fight to get him, otherwise, you're just 98% wrong, because Rex is only 2% of the back of their minds as the other 49 players are right there next to him. He is not special (to the BT).
Being a smart ass is a two way street PO'd. All I've gotten out of you when you address me is a "holier-than-thou" attitude which is beyond annoying. You don't give at all on anything you say, ever. You are stubborn and you take yourself too seriously. If you can't give each other guff on a website, man, oh man, you must lead a miserable life.
I think KO could be a Trent Dilfer type player, in fact, he's remarkably similar in my view. If we lost Rex I would not jump off a bridge. And neither would the BT. Losing Rex would not be THAT big of a deal. They have already said he will have to compete for the starting job.
February 22, 2008
#111 Phil from SATX said . . .And, to be clear, I hate Trent Dilfer, but if we draft a QB and he has promise, KO could be a decent stop-gap, which he was in '05 when we were all waiting on Grossman to save us.
February 22, 2008
#112 AfroCelt said . . .For some reason, I feel very strongly about the fact that Plan B for these guys is P.J. Losman. He's pretty similar to Rex, not as good of an arm, but historically better decision making and a smaller standard deviation on his game to game QB ratings (that's stat talk for Mikeb).
I want Rex, but if we lose him, I guess I want Losman. I've read quite a bit about him, compared historical numbers, I think he'd be an okay replacement, but it would also accelerate the need to draft a franchise QB.
The whole JB/PO'd thing was really stupid - of course JB was right, and one thing about PO'd is he's very tenacious and won't say uncle ever. (He also HATES any hint of sucking up so he probably didn't even appreciate my attempts to "mediate"). I understood the math, it wasn't that complicated. PO'd, I've had your back today but you're wrong about Mikeb - he ain't that way, he just doesn't agree with you and the personal biting happens early when you and he go at it.
TGIF BOYS!
February 22, 2008
#113 mikebdot said . . .wow 111 posts...nice job!
Briggs is great, but can we even afford him?
February 22, 2008
#114 Grasshopper said . . .Phil: I'm not sure how I feel about Losman. I used to hate his guts. But, in '06 he actually completed over 60% of his passes and didn't do anything too stupid. Peerless Price is also available. We could probably get him cheap. He's on the downside of his career, but I wouldn't mind him coming in to be that wiley veteran.
Regardless, I would not be happy about that state of affairs. Especially since that would mean Mike was right about something.
February 22, 2008
#115 Rancid said . . .Random thoughts...
Rex Grossman is hopeless. Call it his fault, call it the organization's fault, call it whatever. But it doesn't matter. The long-term forward progress of the Bears is dependent on getting somebody else under center. It's just that simple.
How can anybody fault the Bears for not plunking the franchise tag on Bernard Berrian? My goodness, when did Berrian become one of the top 7 wide receivers in the NFL, let along the NFC North. He is imminently replaceable, particularly on a team that is in rebuilding mode even though the powers to be at Halas Hall don't like to say so.
2008 will be a transition year on the football field. New offensive line, new wide receiving corp, revamped backfield, a re-jiggered linebacking corp, a reformulated secondary, new playmakers on special teams...and HOPEFULLY, a new QB under center.
We might win 3 games or we might win 8. It won't really matter because the focus will be on building for the future. Don't let Jerry Angelo try to fool you otherwise.
February 22, 2008
#116 Pissed Off said . . .IF Rex re-signed elsewhere, I could deal with Losman as a stopgap for 1-2 years while we tried to develop a Brohm/Woodson/Flacco/Henne/Brennen/Booty type rookie, but I would rather have Rex by a mile. I see us as lucky to even make the playoffs next season if we can't get Rex to come back.
February 22, 2008
#117 Pissed Off said . . .Miked I didnt know you were so plugged into the minds of the BT. Apparently you have mastered ESP. Congrats. And you still cant get it thru your head but I never said he's the reason they do everything, I said he's in the back of thier mind when they make these moves. Dont cry for me, I am happy with myself and certainly dont lead a miserable life, you dont know me...and now your a psychologist. What professions havent you mastered?
Phil I didnt catch your attempt to mediate and I still dont understand the math (where/why the hell did math come into this anyway?) But I was only about a B-C student in math subjects thru HS and college so mabye thats why. I had other much stronger suits.
February 22, 2008
#118 Pissed Off said . . .Regarding Lohsman ( I love how we all call him PJ because of Mike's idiocy) I agree with those who think he's similar to Rex. He was also benched in favor of Trent Edwards at one point last year, even after he came back from his injury. Most comparisons between the two are alike. I wish we had Lee Evans on this team though. Anyway he's solid and he's gotten better with age but I would rather try for someone else since we already have seen Rex/PJ.
February 22, 2008
#119 Megan said . . .Also I think its unfair to say that I will never say "uncle". If I thought I was blatently wrong about something I'd admit it, I've done it befere, maybe not a lot but its been done. What we are talking about now is just speculation and opinions, that has nothing to do with being wrong. If I said Moose Is a chicago bear, I could admit its wrong but saying that I think Rex is in the back of the BTs mind while they make moves is just an opinion, its not somethign I can be "wrong" about. And even if he signs elsewhere I may not be wrong because the BT still could have been thinking that and thinking he was as good as signed but then he turns down the offer and goes to free agency.
February 22, 2008
#120 Pissed Off said . . .I don't like how any of these moves on the offense looks. I hope Jerry and Lovie can pull something sweet out of their *beep*
February 23, 2008
#121 Shady McBears Fan said . . .Megan, do you have nice tits? Care to describe them for me?
February 23, 2008
#122 Shady said . . .Grossman nears new deal
BEARS | 1-2 years, incentives likely in contract for QB-Just like you guys wanted!February 23, 2008
BY BRAD BIGGS bbiggs@suntimes.comINDIANAPOLIS -- The first piece of the Bears' free-agent puzzle should be delivered soon as a contract for Rex Grossman is imminent.
The team is expected to reach an agreement to retain the quarterback, perhaps today, after negotiations on a new deal carried late into the evening Friday.
General manager Jerry Angelo met with agent Eugene Parker in the morning and they huddled again throughout the evening working on details of a contract that would bring the first-round pick from 2003 back for what has been said will be a quarterback competition involving Kyle Orton. A source said it will be a one- or two-year deal and includes incentives based on playing time and performance. Re-signing Grossman was one of the organization's top goals when it arrived at the combine Wednesday.
Grossman, who helped the team to Super Bowl XLI the season before, was erratic in the first three games of 2007 before being benched. He was reinserted at Oakland Nov. 11, replacing Brian Griese, and was more consistent before being lost to a minor knee sprain Dec. 6 at Washington. Returning to the Bears provides Grossman with his best opportunity to play in 2008 despite the turbulent experiences and intense scrutiny he has faced. He's said he wants to return.
''It is a body of work,'' coach Lovie Smith said. ''There have been some highs and some lows, but we think Rex is a good football player and I choose to remember more of those highs. I still don't think he's peaked yet. I still think his future is bright.''
But Grossman, who earned $2.035 million last season, will not be handed the starting job. Orton played well enough in three starts to end the season to prove a viable option, one who is not mistake-prone and might be a good fit for the team, especially if the defense and running game return to form. The Bears have done all they can to avoid quarterback competitions in training camp since 2001 when Jim Miller edged Shane Matthews and Cade McNown was never really in the race. But the franchise has not been able to escape the everlasting turnover that seems to come with the position. In Angelo's seven seasons, the team has changed starting quarterbacks 23 times.
''This is a little bit different,'' Angelo said when asked about competition. ''I don't want to say it's tricky, but you're going to have to have a real plan in place to be fair with everybody and to make sure that you're making the right decision because once we make that decision, we're going to go forward with it and we're going to stay with it.
''[Grossman] understands it. He's talked to Lovie about it. I've talked to his agent about it. He's fine with it. Obviously we want to get the best player under center. Kyle did some good things at the end. I think he deserves the right to compete at the position. I know that this isn't going to be something ... I don't see this dragging out into the season. We will have a pretty good feel as we already do about the guys and what the tiebreaker is, that obviously has to be determined by the coaches."
Griese is expected to be released if Grossman returns. He's due a $300,000 roster bonus early next month. But the competition won't begin until Grossman signs the deal.
February 23, 2008
#123 Phil from SATX said . . .Or maybe not...
Bears won't break bank for Rex Grossman
Offering 1-year deal at less-than-market valueBy David Haugh | Tribune staff reporter
1:07 AM CST, February 23, 2008INDIANAPOLIS - One day after stating Rex Grossman hadn't peaked yet, the Bears opened contract negotiations with the quarterback that hardly reflected a player on the way up.
The Bears offered Grossman a one-year deal Friday that fell short of the market price for a starting quarterback with Super Bowl experience, according to a source familiar with the talks. Bears general manager Jerry Angelo and Grossman's agent, Eugene Parker, met at a downtown hotel to talk specifics for the first time after establishing broad parameters for a deal earlier this week.
But the Bears' offer didn't match the enthusiasm Angelo and coach Lovie Smith expressed for Grossman returning to the Bears during comments Thursday at the NFL scouting combine. The total amount of the offer with incentives was unclear but isn't believed to have exceeded $2 million, a league source said.
Grossman has maintained he prefers to stay with the Bears for a sixth season if they make a fair offer. If he enters the free-agent market Friday, he would be among the top quarterbacks available, but there hasn't been much buzz about him here from teams likely in the market for a quarterback.
If Grossman signs with another team willing to pay more than the Bears, it's unlikely he would have as clear of a path to the starting lineup. Angelo and Smith both made a point to say Grossman would compete with Kyle Orton if he does re-sign but also dropped hints about who would have an edge when they talked about Grossman's "body of work.''
...
One source said if the sides reach a deal they would do so this weekend. If not, Grossman likely will test the market starting Thursday.
The negotiations began on a day at the combine when college quarterbacks believed to intrigue the Bears such as Joe Flacco of Delaware and Chad Henne of Michigan met the national media.
The free-agent class of potential quarterbacks is weak enough that Angelo, in a telling glimpse, acknowledged the Bears' desire to bring Grossman back could be indicative that he's simply their best available option for 2008.
Asked if wanting Grossman back reflected faith in him or a weak free-agent class, Angelo responded, "It's a combination of the two.''
"We do have confidence in Rex,'' Angelo said. "The familiarity that we (and our coaches) have with him, that he has with the offense, you can't take that lightly. Even though you might get somebody who might be a little better, beauty is in the eye of the beholder; there still would be a transition period. ... I think this is his best situation.''
Whether Grossman still agreed Friday night after the Bears' opening offer was in more doubt than many expected.
My thoughts:
So Angelo is Low-Ballin' Grossman, eh? Good for him.
But the question is, does Rex need the Bears more than the Bears need Rex?
Who's got the upper hand in this negotiation?
February 23, 2008
#124 Phil from SATX said . . .I'm going to choose to believe that we're hearing nothing but the middle of negotiations, which is typically meaningless to the end result. But if the second article is true, I'm going to be very pissed, because a $2MM, one year deal does NOT sound like anything designed to get Grossman back in the fold. That's not starting money, and I think these guys're playing with fire. But hopefully we'll hear something soon.
My confidence level about next season, which is amazingly currently fine, will plummet if we don't have a Rex option going into next year. I know I've talked approvingly about Angelo's "sobriety" talk, but given the millions that are spent every year on underachieving players (and let's face it, it always happens with some guys), I'm having a little trouble swallowing the need for such a conservative offer. Based on this, I would guess that the Bears never even considered the franchise tag for Berrian, who probably graded out as being worth less than half the franchise offer.
If they lose out on a willing Rex because of an unwillingness to commit an extra $1MM I think they're being very foolish. You're going to offer the guy less than BG's been making? And now I can also start chewing some crow on my prediction of his offer - what'd I say? 3 years plus a 1 year option with $6MM guaranteed or something?
Cough cough. Uh, no.
Megan, sorry about the douche posting in PO'd's name. Jeff, we have a total of 2 women who post here, and Nicole's been gone for a while. You might need to do something about that, if there's anything to do.
February 23, 2008
#125 Megan said . . .Now I'm back on the Trib, reading stuff - article about Angelo talking about Chad Henne.
I've got nothing against Chad Henne, although I didn't watch him really at all this year. What I do have a problem with is this line from the article:
"Jerry Angelo said he wants to develop a young quarterback in the mold of Kyle Orton."
Jerry, you're kidding, right? Why not just say you want to develop a young quarterback in the mold of Brian Griese? Someone needs to whisper to Jerry --- "Uh, Jerry, we already have Kyle Orton on the roster, why would we need to develop another young QB to become him? Especially one shorter than him?"
I like Kyle, honestly I do. But if Kyle had to throw the ball through a 6' x 6' hole in a wall to save his mother's life, his mother's dead.
Jerry, you're losing me, man.
February 23, 2008
#126 Jimbo said . . .I've given up on being offended on here. I know who the real bloggers are and I also know that not one of you would ever post anything durogatory. Nicole will probably visit from time to time in the off-season but I think she might wait until camp or even the season to start.
I am NOT as good as you guys are about the who's who/ what's what in players out there. I depend on you guys and what I can pick up on Da Site.
I don't think Jeff thinks I have a lot to offer since he doesn't really respond to my posts anymore, but I am here because I am a fan, I want to learn and I love the Bears.
If I got offended because some person made rude comments about my feminine whiles... well, I don't think I would be surfing the net. Offensive behavior is everywhere whether we like it or not.
Quite honestly, the man with the name that begins with the letter "D" was more offensive. Thanks for being my big brother, Phil.February 23, 2008
#127 Megan said . . .It sounds like Rex has all but signed the dotted line and will be coming back to compete with Orton, i.e., Rex is coming back to start.
February 23, 2008
#128 Phil from SATX said . . .Excuse my spelling- "wiles" instead of "whiles", I think you know what I meant
February 23, 2008
#129 Decatur Staleys #7 said . . .Anytime, Megan. Just read a story on da site about Jacob Hester - turns out he'd love to be a Bear! Still like the concept of drafting a fullback, although I don't think Angelo will do it, because I don't think it would fit his definition of providing competition at the RB position. Although when you think about it, the "off the bus running" Bears would really benefit from adding TWO running additions, in drafting a big fullback and adding a RB, either draft of FA. Maybe FA's better for RB, we certainly have money to spend right now.
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=4399
Jacob Hester as a Chicago Bear! I love it!
February 23, 2008
A 1 yr deal 2MM doesn't sound like there to commited to Rex to come back an stay.
They must be really high on Flacco,an think they can get him?Or this QB situation really gets confusing.
February 23, 2008
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