So long have I sported my passion for the burnt and navy on the sleeves of my Urlacher, Waddle, Zorich and McMahon that it's a wonder the Chicago Bears can still surprise me. But sure enough they can and today they did. No, I'm not surprised that the Bears are in danger of losing high quality free agents who've been an asset to the organization. I'm not surprised that the Bears have re-signed a liability at the quarterback position. I wasn't surprised until I came across Mike Mulligan's column in today's Sun-Times, which makes it very clear that while the Bears extended Rex Grossman through next season, they'll be looking to extend Kyle Orton through 2010 in the coming days.
So you'll have an open quarterback battle between a man who is under contract for seven months and a man who is under contract for the remainder of the decade? Isn't that like having a joust and only giving one of the horsemen a lance? John Clayton reported on ESPN that Rex's contract was essentially a free-pass to the starting job. Jay Mariotti wrote today that the Rex contract constituted the end of the Chicago Bears franchise as we know it. I think everyone might be missing the boat.
If the Bears lock up Kyle Orton through 2010 then I fully expect KO to be the starting quarterback to start the 2008 season. Kyle's time is now, this offseason, to improve upon the flourish with which he ended 2007. The Bears played their best football at the end of the season for a myriad of reasons but there's no denying who the quarterback was. Orton should show up to camp bigger, stronger and shaven. He should act like this is his football team. He should tell the Mariottis and Rosenblooms of the world that the future is him. Is it true? I have no idea. But Halas Hall sure is leaning that way.
#2 craig said . . .Your point of view is certainly reasonable, and arguable. But I still think it's wrong. I think that the reason the Bears locked up Orton was because he was cheap (I say this on faith - I don't actually know what his deal is) and based on the fact that he showed he could be a very credible backup option, as well as potentially offering the upside of a starter if the real starter goes down for whatever reason.
He was signed as a permanent backup. He will not beat out Grossman for the starting job, nor does the disparity in the two contracts have any meaning vis a vis who's starting next year. He did play pretty well at the end of the season, with few turnovers. However, many of the points came off of interceptions and he didn't convert a bunch of red zone opportunities. He continues to be plagued by an inaccurate arm, his nemesis throughout his limited career, just as BG continues to be plagued by a weak arm.
A stronger point is the fact that if the Bears wanted or planned or intended on Kyle Orton starting in 2008, they wouldn't have wasted $1.5MM guaranteed on Rex Grossman. They just would have moved on.
Rex will be the starter in 2008, unless he gets injured in preseason. If he is, he'll be cut. In fact, any injury that causes Rex to miss time this season will result in termination - if not outright cutting, certainly no plans to lock him up long term. But barring that, he WILL be the starter, and the Bears will hope that he succeeds and will waste no time, mid-season, in locking him up.
BTW, did you see how Rex called Turner immediately after being signed? They apparently have a good relationship, and I'm hoping the tandem really blossoms in 2008. I saw that as a good sign for the team - these guys need to be on the same page.
February 24, 2008
#3 CAK said . . .I think Phil is probably right. Orton was signed to be a backup. We've all seen this guy play. He's OK—but there's no way any personnel guy in the NFL thinks he's a starter. And if they're really going to compete for it in training camp, Grossman wins hands-down.
February 24, 2008
#4 Max said . . .Two extension for Clark.
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=4402February 24, 2008
#5 Jimbo said . . .I agree with Phil, it makes no sense to bring back Rex for one year if all you are going to do is use him as a backup. . . this is his last shot.
And i really like the extension to Clark. That gives us alot of options in the 2 tight end sets with GO.
February 24, 2008
#6 Jimbo said . . .Dear JA,
Please DRAFT A QUARTERBACK! Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
JimboFebruary 24, 2008
#7 jeff said . . .Interesting that a good majority of us see the Rex signing for what it is... our best option.
Poll from Chicagosports.com...
"The Bears and Rex Grossman have agreed to another year for $3 million. And you are…
Fine with it. Nothing better is out there (3542 responses) 55.3%
Ecstatic. He will lead the Bears to glory (853 responses) 13.3%
Irritated. They could have shopped around (1370 responses) 21.4%
Breathing fire. This guy is responsible for all that is bad with Chicago sports (641 responses) 10.0%
6406 total responses"February 24, 2008
#8 HesterFan23 said . . .vaughn dawg wrote in his column that there are rumblings throughout the organization that the job may be kyle orton's to lose.
February 24, 2008
#9 jdawg said . . .Yep, the Bears signed Clark. Another good move.
I really hope we can keep Bernard...
February 24, 2008
#10 Shady said . . .If its Orton's to lose than he'll lose it in training camp, unless Oscar is able to rebuild him, or his right arm at least.
February 24, 2008
#11 Sarg said . . .Great to hear we extended the contract of one of the most underrated TEs in the game, and one of my favorite Bears: DEZ CLARK!
As far as Orton is concerned...
I believe his contract extension was more of an insurance policy than it was anything else. Kyle has also been very patient behind Grossman, performed well when called upon and has been a team player all the while without complaining about "sitting bitch". This extension could also be a reward for just such behavior.
February 24, 2008
#12 tenacious d said . . .Max, the only thing I would ask is how many "shots" does this non-mobile, rotten, blind, throw it up into a crowd goof get before he catches the final boot!!!!!!!
February 24, 2008
#13 Shady said . . .Jeff....I wouldn't read too much into the fact that Rexy only got a 1 year deal versus Neck-beard's 2 year extension. Rexy only wanted a one-year deal, so he can try for the "big money" contract that he missed out on this year.
I do believe that there will be a competition in the spring and summer to determine who will be the starter. If Rexy outperforms Kyle in camp, and plays at a high level into the season, JA will offer a him a long term deal.
We still may draft a QB, though. But in all likelihood, the draftee wont be able to contribute for a couple of years anyway.
February 25, 2008
#14 Polygonhell said . . .The question now becomes:
Who will that draftee be?
Joe Flacco? *
Chad Henne?
Andre Woodson?
Other?
Place your bets now!
* Shady's pick since 11/07
February 25, 2008
#15 Mike said . . .I'm going with the competition in training camp theory. At some level there has to be a favorite, but both contracts tend to imply the Bears organisation isn't sure.
The Orton signing though is something of a necessity. If they didn't sign Orton, what are their options in 09. It's just not good sense to have bith QB's contracts expire in the same year.
I still think we'll see a QB drafted in the 3rd or 4th round, and probably Griese released although I read somewhere that the Bears had discussed having 4 QB's on the roster.
February 25, 2008
#16 John Madden said . . .- One more year of Kyle "I can't hit the broad side of a barn" Orton?
- One more your of Rex Grossman?
- Mark "I've caught 30 passes in 3 years and suck" Bradley as the top wide receiver?
- Cedric Bust-on to return at running back?
- At least two gaping holes on the offensive line?
- No more Lance Briggs?
- Placing faith in Mike Brown just one more time?
====
And there are bozos on this board who insist the Bears can dominate in 2008? Unreal. Not surprising, but unreal nonetheless.
Tell me, which one of you guys is in charge of Jerry Angelo a bouquet of flowers for his wondrous job building the NFC's most explosive offense???
February 25, 2008
#17 Rancid said . . .Like I've always said, when a team says it has two starter-grade quarterbacks then it means it doesn't even have one.
Good luck with that Kyle Orton and Rex Grossman thing Chicago.
February 25, 2008
#18 minnie Mad Dog said . . .I think KO gets the longer year because if he loses a battle with Rex, he is still a logical backup and could likely wind up as a decent professional career backup (which is a sweet job by the way). Rex is not that sort of QB. He'll either get it together and be a good starter or he'll prove that he's permanently inconsistant and be done. Even if he never earns a starter job, KO is valuable. If Rex can't get it together enough to be trusted as a starter then I don't really think you'd want him as a backup either.
I am glad to see the 1 year deal for Rex. Maybe Rex will come out solid, proving his benching last year "fixed" him. As long as Greasemaster gets cut then that leaves us with a competent Rex, a decent KO backing him up, and hopefully a rookie with some potential in the 3 spot. I know that's fairly optimistic, but I do think it's possible, and it sure as hell beats sitting around with Mike's attitude contemplating suicide.
February 25, 2008
#19 Jimbo said . . .Most fans will agree that if there is a competition, Rex will win it. Good. I, like many others, have had many cases of nervous dyspepsia (puking) because of Rex. But still he can play and is a scrapper. Also, as many others have noted, whenever he is in the game it is entertainment. Sorry but, he reminds me in some ways of Jim McMahon.
Why is Adam A. still on our team? This guy has shown nothing since a Bear. He is slow, flat footed, and often running in the wrong direction. I just assumed he was history, but apparently not.
Why is Brian Griese still on our team? One great drive (best of his long career) does not make up for the arm of a 14 year old.
I believe we should do every thing possible to keep Bernard Berrian. And should have franchised him. Who can we get that is better? He dropped a lot of catches to be sure, but the whole team seemed to have the flu most of the season. He has speed and gets separation. Put some stickem on his hands.
I won't even get into our running back situation.
February 25, 2008
#20 Pissed Off said . . .Larry Mayer article from Da Site leaves the impression we'll come away from the draft with a new quarterback...
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=4401
February 25, 2008
#21 Al in WI said . . .I am sooooo glad Rex is back. I don't care what fools like Mike say. The Bears are poised for a Super Bowl run in 2008. We'll sign Flozell Adams and Alan Faneca.
12-4 in 2008 and a trip to the Super Bowl.
February 25, 2008
#22 Bud said . . .Mike, can I get a refund on that "Rex Grossman is a gonner, book it," claim you made before? Knowing you are the authority on all things Bears I placed money on it and am now poor. A little help would nice.
By the way, the only way Orton is the starter is if Rex is injured or has a meltdown. Kyle is terrible. He lacks the basic accuracy to be an starting quarterback, and that hasn't changed since his rookie year.
While I would have liked to see Rex get a long term deal in reality any contract would have been a 1-yr deal. If he has a good year he'll be in line for an extension and if not he'll be cut so there really is no difference. I can't wait to see what Po'd says when he reads this post.February 25, 2008
#23 Sarg said . . .It doesn't matter if it's Rex or K.O. until they revamp the O-line and running game back to respectable status, even Peyton Manning would have difficulties being productive.
Also, did you guys see Lovie sweat when reporters asked him who would start at Wide Reciever if Berrian doesn't resign? You could almost see him cringing while he spewed the names Mark Bradley and Devon Hester out of his mouth.
This offense needs some serious help at almost every position...How sad!!!!
February 25, 2008
#24 Max said . . .PO'd must be a special kind of moron to consider a winning season from that CHOKER, Gross. Pull your head out of your ass, or Grossy"s, and wake up.
February 25, 2008
#25 mikebdot said . . .Damn, the nay sayers are out in full force. . . I am waiting til pre season before i make any predictions. We need alot of help at O-line. . . we need help at Wide Receiver if BB leaves . . . our QBs have been inconsisent. . . and our running backs have been better. . . but there are some good players out there in free agency that are promising and the draft is still a little ways away so i will remain positive.
February 25, 2008
#26 jeff said . . .Max: The "naysayer(s)" are probably all "Mike"...the full force of one douchebag.
Personally, I'll wait for free agency to start to make stupid comments about our chances next year.
February 25, 2008
#27 Phil from SATX said . . .UPDATE. according to vaughn in the trib, orton will sign a one-year extension through 2009 and the contract is rumored to be the same as grossman's...almost identical.
February 25, 2008
#28 jeff said . . .Just another thought on the quarterback competition deal. I think all of that is more for Orton than it is for Rex, or for the coaches' needs. I'll say again that I think the Orton extension was because he's shown to be a very credible backup, AND the jury's still at least a little out on whether he can progress to a real, successful starter for a good team in the NFL.
It is the second point that makes it strategically important for the Bears to give Kyle every incentive to continue to work hard and improve. Remember that between the '05 and '06 seasons, after Kyle lost his job and we signed BG, we were hearing that Kyle wasn't working too hard on his game - possibly depressed that he was put on the permanent bench slot behind Rex and Grease.
If they immediately annointed Rex as starter given his 1 year, potentially $5MM deal, it may have been a confidence killer to Orton and changed his offseason - OR it may have made him against any extension.
The Bears are better as a team if Orton works as hard as he can and continues to improve. His status as a credible backup was cemented when he came in after Rex's injury and won us two games in a row. THAT'S what a good backup does - not win one, lose one, which is what Grease gave us, which is not good enough.
Does that mean Orton's the better QB than Rex and therefore should be the starter? No, it doesn't mean that. But he made his bones as a bonafide #2 backup with his performance at the end of the season.
Do my comments mean that the QB competition will be a sham? No - if Orton demonstrably outperforms Rex in preseason, he WILL be given the starting job. I just don't think there's much chance of that happening - ESPECIALLY in preseason, when the pressure on the QB is not as intense, either physically or mentally. Just can't see Rex, who has by far the better arm, losing that battle.
February 25, 2008
#29 Pissed Off said . . .phil, well said. but i have never heard of a football team paying the "backup" as much money as the "starter" and for a longer period of time. if the tribune reports are right and the orton contract is the same as rex's, you'd have to give ko much more than a puncher's chance to win this job. but being that the only bears receivers the bears have on the roster are a guy who doesn't understand the playbook and a guy who had like six catches last year, it doesn't much matter does it?
February 25, 2008
#30 Pissed Off said . . .#20 not me.
Sorry I've been out all weekend. Certainly keeping up with the news though and I, probably more than anyone am totally excited about the idea of having Rex under center to start 2008. Kyle will be the backup. The wink, wink of having a competition for the starting job is fine. I actually think Kyle can be a viable #2 for this or any team but he's not a #1.
As DTB said, chalk one up for me and him. You can chalk that up for StartO, Phil, and all the others who wanted this thing done.Mike, as Al said, what happened to the 100% chance Rex was gone? Its been a great weekend. I will be in Vegas this coming weekend and I'll have a hard time keeping up with all the free agency action but I'll do my best.
February 25, 2008
#31 jeff said . . .Now that I've had a chance to read thru everything and chill over the weekend I cand speak for bit while being level headed. Maybe everything in Pissed Off's world is just a little brighter today since Rex has re-signed. I will start by saying I am sorry to JB & Mikeb for the pissing match last week. I will stand by my points(which I feel are a bit more evidenced now by the signing) but If I came across rude rather than just being an efficient debater I apologize.
Jeff I think your crazy if you actually think Orton is the favorite to win the #1 job. Since he signed the same contract as Rex it tell me the BT is keeping things status quo when they say there will be a competition for the #1. However if that is true there is zero chance KO looks better than Rex and gets the nod.
Sarg, Mike, (or maybe your all the same person) and the rest of you naysayers you can pull your heads out of your asses and see the truth if you want. You can see that we have re-signed Rex, Dez and that there will be other good signings in free agency. Sure some guys will walk but so what? Thats football and you've been fans of this team for a long time (so you say) and you know how the BT operates. So why does all of this surprise you so much? If you dont choose to look at at least a little bit of the positive you are going to live a sad season. Also why do you even blog if you have nothing but negatives to talk about. Why dont you just go away and say "hey win some games and get back to me?" then come back when you have something positive to say. What fun is it talking about this team that brings you down daily? It seems like a gring to me? Your making yourselves miserable if this team really makes you sick and you still choose to focus on it daily.
A big "W" today for all of us who wanted Rex back. Al (of course), DTB, Phil, StartO etc. I dont want to leave anyone out but you all know who you are.
I dont know what else to say but "YES!"
Now lets get some damn free agents picked up, fill a few holes, draft well and get to the playoffs. If you think that this team, or any team in the NFC for that matter cant compete for a playoff spot, your nuttier than squirrel shit.
February 25, 2008
#32 Phil from SATX said . . .po'd, i didn't make this opinion up. i've now read it three different places. you don't give a backup quarterback the chance to make 5 million dollars.
February 25, 2008
#33 Al in WI said . . .You're right Jeff, and I had posted before seeing your post about the details of Orton's extension. I think we will need to see the details of his extension. Remember that for next year, Orton's being paid peanuts. Let's say he is offered the same deal as Rex for 2009 - $3MM contract, $1.5MM guaranteed, incentives for starting that can raise it to $5MM.
I think these details still fit into my hypothesis. They are telling Orton, "we have confidence in you - you can be more than a perennial backup." But it still doesn't change any of the possible outcomes:
1) Rex wins job, performs well as starter, gets inked to long term deal in late October/early November (kind of like the Romo timing last year). Now in this scenario, Kyle will stay backup for next year, albeit a better-paid one at $3MM for a year. Is this out of line for a backup? Maybe a little - but BG was getting $2.5MM, and his deal was inked two years earlier.
2) Rex wins job, but performs poorly/gets injured. Orton is given his real shot, AND gets to finish the season having one more year under contract. If Orton finishes out the year strongly, management has an offseason decision to make about whether he's the guy. If he finishes weakly, time for your franchise hunt.
3) Orton, fired up about having a real shot at starting, purchases advanced BMI-class dynamic prosthesis on Ebay (BMI is Brain-Machine-Interface). Has outpatient surgery, he and his new arm win the job. Now BT looks like geniuses for getting him an extra year for cheap starter money, but all that will be moot because they'll tear up that contract and sign him long term right during our bye week in the playoffs (Kyle and bionic arm get us home field advantage).
Am I missing any possibilities? I think the BT is being pretty damn smart here, covering all their bases without tying up any long term money prematurely.
February 25, 2008
#34 Pissed Off said . . .Jeff, the Bears gave Griese a bigger deal then that to be the backup in 2006. So it does happen. And if you apply your logic to Grossman, then the Bears didn't give him $5 mill to ride the bench either.
I read all of these articles as well and the only one I felt backed up your view of Orton as the favorite was Vaughn's. I didn't take the Mulligan article the way you did at all.
I think it simply reflects that the Bears don't want both qb's to be FA's next season. And they may be more comfortable in his role as a backup qb at this point.
It will be a fair and open qb competition so there will be supporters of Orton's at least coming in. But I see no chance he wins the battle on merits because he lacks the talent for the role.February 25, 2008
#35 jeff said . . .Jeff, I know, and their giving Rex the chance to make 5 million dollars = he's starting. And if it was the money, Grieseball would be starting cuz he's making more than both of em.
February 25, 2008
#36 Phil from SATX said . . .both gross and ko were on rookie contracts so you can't compare them to brian griese's deal and NO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. it never happens. maybe i'm crazy but i don't understand why we're about to pile 6+ million dollars for a pair of mediocre players at the game's most important position.
February 25, 2008
#37 jdawg said . . .It does depend on the details of the offer to Orton, which I don't believe we yet know. I do think it represents overpaying to give him a $3MM deal - you can effectively ignore the $2MM in incentives because they are all related to starting the whole year, which won't happen if Rex is succeeding. But that is NEXT year, not this year - and Jeff, if you were against the $3MM-$5MM tender offer for a one year deal to Grossman, you differ from most of the regulars around here. Still the Bears best option for this coming year, and smartly constructed in that it allows them to participate in upside while the downside is extremely limited.
Did you read the article about the growing notion that this year's QBs are weak? That may play into BT's thoughts as well. Just not a lot of good QBs to go around.
February 25, 2008
#38 DTB said . . .I see the difference between the two as:
Orton won't win games for you, but he won't lose them either;
Rex can win games for you, but he can lose them for you too;
Now, if Rex can make better decisions he's the better QB. Also, he'll always look better in camp because he's got the better arm of the two.
February 25, 2008
#39 Mike said . . .All I gotta say is...
PJ Losman
February 25, 2008
#40 Mike said . . .The contract dished out to Kyle Orton signifies that he will be given every chance to be the starting QB. There is no other way to read it. I agree completely with what Jeff has to say on this subject. I don't agree that Orton can be a viable starting QB in this league, but I'm not member of the front office running the show at Halas Hall.
By his moves and non-moves Angelo is strongly telegraphing what his draft priorities are going to be....
1st round...best available offensive tackle
2nd round, 3rd round (3 picks)...wide receiver and running back for absolute sure
==
The available free agent wide receivers are vagabound journeyman. Ditto the running backs outside of Michael Turner. But it doesn't look like Turner will be in the cards for the Bears.In terms of free agency, look for the Bears to pick up one of the craptastic wide receivers to go along with an offensive guard not named Alan Faneca and a veteran linebacker.
February 25, 2008
#41 Phil from SATX said . . .Will the Chicago Bears take a flyer on the faded out Shaun Alexander? That is a storyline that shall bear watching.
February 25, 2008
#42 Jimbo said . . .I actually agree with everything you posted there, Mike. But while I agree that Orton will be given a true audition to be the starting QB, I just don't think it's possible he can beat out Rex, especially given the structure of preseason that represents less of a "trial by fire" test for a QB. I also think the BT knows this, which you could argue makes the "QB competition" a little disengenuous. But only a little.
I agree with your draft priorities - I just don't agree that all FA WR's are "craptastic." Not sure why you think that. Maybe you're automatically tuning out the top names (i.e. Moss or Chad Johnson, if they make it out there), but I am intrigued by Bryant Johnson and T.J. Duckett, among others.
Of interest, I did hear on the radio this morning that they are starting to call this a VERY DEEP draft for running backs and wide receivers. Major speed showing up at the combine. That dovetails very nicely with our needs.
February 25, 2008
#43 Phil from SATX said . . .PO'ed, I point this poll out to you only to show a good number of Bears fans are, let's say, at least less than ecstatic about diving back into the fray with Grossman at the helm. I personally think we needed to bring him back because our options were limited. I also acknowledge he has tremendous potential. But to bet on Grossman to step up and become a stable player who can lead the Bears to the playoffs on a consistent basis is a longshot bet given what we've seen so far.
This is from Chicagosports (I posted it before as well)...
"The Bears and Rex Grossman have agreed to another year for $3 million. And you are…
Fine with it. Nothing better is out there (5186 responses) - 56.4%
Ecstatic. He will lead the Bears to glory (1219 responses) - 13.2%
Irritated. They could have shopped around (1937 responses) - 21.0%
Breathing fire. This guy is responsible for all that is bad with Chicago sports (861 responses) - 9.4%9203 total responses"
February 25, 2008
#44 Al in WI said . . .Jimbo, I think the bigger news on that poll is that nearly 70% of respondents are either fine or ecstatic at bringing back Grossman. Those are high approval ratings. That's pretty astonishing when you think back to the mood of Chicago with Grossman after the 3rd game of 2007. I think the reason 70% of Bear fans think this is because 1) his improvement after his benching, which I think surprised a lot of people (it did me); 2) a growing understanding and awareness that evaluation of the current QB for the Bears is difficult, and potentially unfair, given the reality of having suddenly the worst offensive line in football, not to mention problems with some of our other "weapons;" 3) a growing realization that there are not a lot of other options represent a better bet than Rex for 2008.
This may be a longshot, as you say, but it's only a one year shot. So we're not betting the franchise on Rex - okay because there's no other good options to bet the franchise on in 2008 - (unless Brady Quinn is an option???)
I remember from psychology class (many, many years ago) that a person's bond toward another person that he once hated and now likes is much stronger than the bond with a person that you've always liked. If Rex can develop some consistency, I think we'll see some of this phenomenon in action with Bear fans - we'll love him more because we hated him before. Looking forward to that.
February 25, 2008
#45 Jimbo said . . .Jimbo, I think the poll you reference actually makes the case that the great "silent majorty," of bears fans are in Rex's corner versus the quarter or so that scream the loudest.
As for what the Bears could be thinking regarding Orton, I see several different ways to look at it. I would first point out though, that no deal has been reached with Orton, so we are still dealing with rumors on the specific length or money details.
They may view signing Orton as insurance so that they don't have both guys hit the market in the same year. They may also look at the deal as leverage to argue that they have another option if Rex wants a huge contract.
From what I've seen, this season Grossman will earn a base salary of around $3mill while Orton is making $500k. His new extension wouldn't kick in until '09 except for any signing bonus.
What makes no sense, is why they would offer Grossman this contract (or the two year deal they proposed) with a healthy raise just to have him backup Orton. That seems like a less then ideal situation for all sides.February 25, 2008
#46 Phil from SATX said . . .Phil and Al, good posts and point(s) taken. I'm definitely in Phil's #3 camp... "a growing realization that there are not a lot of other options represent a better bet than Rex for 2008." My interpretation of the 5000+ folks who voted "fine with it-no better option" would be they have concluded that as well.
If the BT drafts a QB, I think they will have played that position as best they could this offseason. They will have shored up our best 2, and will have added a possible option for 2009 and on.
Also, as far as throwing the poll up, I think it's friggin' great that PO'ed is the biggest Rex fan sitting by the lake. I got no problem with that. I just wanted to make the observation there's alot of us out here that are luke warm on the decision.
February 25, 2008
#47 Pissed Off said . . .One more take on this issue. I think the Bears really do appreciate Kyle Orton. The guy gets thrown in as a 4th round draftee rookie, and helps the Bears win an improbable 10 games. He then gets benched AND demoted to the 3rd spot. Apart from a little depression and maybe a little loss of work ethic, and rebellious growing of excessive facial hair, he takes it all like a man. Then, the next shot he gets, he establishes the first and only 2-game win streak of the year.
It's kind of like, what else does the guy have to do? I think it's in recognition of their appreciation of him that they're potentially overpaying him to be a backup (at least for one year) AND turning somersaults in their attempts to convince him that he has a real, bonafide shot to be the starter.
It's just not fooling me - Rex will still be the starter in 2008. In the words of Mike,
BOOK IT!
February 25, 2008
#48 Bill said . . .Agree Al that it made no sense for the Bears to re-sign Rex if they were going to have him be a #2....period. You can get a cheap #2 somewhere else and if Rex didnt truly think he was going to be #1, I dont think he signs a one-year deal. A one year deal is risky the way it is. Look at Briggs comments on getting franchised last year (regarding injuy etc.) though his salary was retardedly high for 2007. And if Rex has a breakout year, the Bears probably wont be able to afford him cuz he'll get overpaid on the market. That said I think Rex is the type of guy that would give a hometown discount unlike BA, Briggs and B2. Plus Kyle is technically making the 500K which points more to him being #2. We must be cutting Griese now right? Certainly soon, before he gets that roster bonus.
Jimbo, I cant relpy any better to you than Phil and Al have for me. So yeah.....what they said in #43 & #44. Its not that I cant think for myself but I really cant say it any better.
Phil in #41 I think you meant DJ Hackett. He's my favorite FA WR no question. I would like to get him. And I can assume that we will not be signing Booker since it has not been done.
February 25, 2008
#49 mikebdot said . . .I've been away too long from here - needed a break; but recent events borught me back. I haven't had time to catch up but I've skimmed the posts.
I'm upset more by the audacity of the Bears to RAISE ticket prices again after such a disappointing season AND with no major signings on the horizon AND likely losing 2 if not three starters (counting Ayenbedejo as a "starter").
Grossman vs Orton doesn't make me or anyone excited. A QB project in the later rounds does nothing either. No improvement in RB; bigger holes than ever at receiver.
Good news? Stability in TE; a defense that can be better than last year (questioanble to be sure, but if Briggs replacement - can't remember his name - is decent and the Anderson as starter experiment is over and with some stability at DT, we shoudl be OK there. And - indications that the OLine will be fixed starting with Tait moving.
But they are clearly rebuilding. I can't see why Rex woudl take a one year deal without even trying to see what's out there. My guess - and apologies if this has already been discussed - is that he felt this was his only real chance of proving himself capable as a starter.
Will RT (I can't believe he's back) open things up more? Especially since we have no running game? Or are we drafting an RB first round?
Again, this is a rebuilding team - nowhere near a SB contender.
February 25, 2008
#50 Phil from SATX said . . .Kyle Orton made just over $500,000 last season. Perhaps this is just our way of saying "thanks" for aiding our playoff run in '05 (or perhaps, rather, "thanks" for not killing our shot at a playoff run) and then being a great teammate the past few seasons.
Or perhaps, they're really just afraid Grossman will get injured again.
I've also read they're considering having 4 QBs on the roster next season. That's just crazy talk. They need to release Griese and not waste that roster spot (and save money as well).
Anyone interested in Mike Huff? I think his contract is kind of retarded, but apparently they're looking to shop him.
http://beta.profootballtalk.com/2008/02/24/raiders-shopping-michael-huff/
It probably wouldn't make much financial sense though, at least it sounds like we'd be screwed with a cap hit.
February 25, 2008
#51 mikebdot said . . .Mikeb, had to search a little, but here's what I once had to say about secondary players who come from Texas:
If there's one thing you can get consistently out of UT, it's secondary, both corners and safeties. Quentin Jammer, Nathan Vasher, Aaron Ross, Michael Griffin - they just pump them out.
Looking at that list, I can't believe I left off Michael Huff! I LOVE the idea of going after him.
LOVE IT! Think they'd like a Brian Griese, Cedric Benson or Adam Archuleta in trade?
Seriously, that's a great idea which would totally plug the hole at safety.
February 25, 2008
#52 Phil from SATX said . . .http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=4401
Ok, that's the article about signing Grossman and with the possibility of keeping 4 QBs. Within it though, I saw this:
Angelo talking about the '05 draft:
“There was a real good offensive lineman that we wanted at the time we drafted Kyle,� Angelo said. “The offensive lineman wound up being a rookie starter and playing real well and that was really more of an immediate need. But given how we felt about Kyle and given that he was a quarterback, we opted to take Kyle and it really panned out well for us."
Um, not to take anything away from our '05 season with mistake/great play-free Orton at the helm, who would rather have a quality lineman instead? Even knowing Rex was going to be hurt that season? Count me in...shit, Orton could still have been available at the next round. The only other team that took a QB that year after Orton and before the Bears next pick in the 5th round was Carolina.
February 25, 2008
#53 Pissed Off said . . .Michael Huff has $15MM guaranteed but has already been paid about $13MM in two years. Don't know how much of that counts against the guarantee but I bet much of it does. So the big issue with his contract is the $20MM or so in incentives. I wonder what kind of incentives and how easily attainable they are? If it's being a Pro Bowler or something, it'd probably be worth all that money.
I hope the Bears are thinking seriously about this one.
February 25, 2008
#54 Phil from SATX said . . .Huff automatically becomes the best safety available. He's not a free agent but if you want a top 10 safety thats your guy. I would have to learn more about his contract but this guy plays every game and had some serious talent. Dont know if its worth the massive amount of money or trade value it takes to get him but I'd make that phone call if I were Angelo.
I think they might be banking on Mike Brown coming back? If he does and plays a full season (seems highly unlikely doesnt it?) we are fine at saftey. Huff might be way too expensive for what his role might be if MB is healthy.
February 25, 2008
#55 Phil from SATX said . . .If you got Huff and Mike Brown was healthy, those two would be paired together and D. Manning would be sitting, waiting for a Mike B. injury (or trade bait).
February 25, 2008
#56 JB said . . .I'd give up our 2nd rounder for Huff. Fix the safety situation immediately, still be able to draft an olineman with 14, and a RB and WR with our two 3rd rounders.
February 25, 2008
#57 Pissed Off said . . .Completely off topic, but in regards to jeff's post, and his list of bears jerseys, i'd be interested to hear from the jersey wearers what jerseys you've owned and worn over the years. here's mine:
Tom Waddle (signed), Jim Harbaugh (later Steve Walsh..ha), Chris Zorich, Urlacher, Berrian.
These are the jerseys of current players I'd like to have: Hester, Olsen & Tillman...
February 25, 2008
#58 DTB said . . .Currently have Rex and Urlacher. (met Urlacher at a bar in St. Paul and had him sign a shirt I was wearing, not my jersey though, and I had my pic taken with him). Previously owned Zorich. Plan on gettin a Tillman this year.
February 25, 2008
#59 Al in WI said . . .The list
Walter, Sigletary, Tillman, Walter, UrlacherFebruary 25, 2008
#60 jeff said . . .List: Tomczak, Payton, Neal Anderson, Singletary, A-Train, Conway, Kramer over the years.
Currently: Grossman, Urlacher.February 25, 2008
#61 start Olsen said . . .i'm getting an olsen before the season.
February 25, 2008
#62 jeff said . . .my favorite jersey is my #45 Gary Fencik
I wish I still had my Zorich jersey- one of my all time favorites. I too want an Olsen, or a Kreutz, nextOrton's time is never- that is crazy talk.
February 25, 2008
#63 Viva said . . .maybe i'll get a doug plank for the symbolism
February 26, 2008
#64 Shady McSplash Fan said . . .DANIMAL.
February 26, 2008
#65 Max said . . .Jerry Angelo better buy his offense this offseason because if he doesn't, we're gonna see a repeat of '07 sans Griese.
It's not fair to subject QBs to that kind of abuse.
And it's not right to waste the talents of a special guy like Devin Hester. Both in regards to his potential offensive production as well as the incredible field position Devin (and the defense) continue to give the offense.
Jerry must continue to purchase proven NFL players via FA. There are names out there who could potentially make an immediate impact, especially considering the Chicago's current depth chart. Here are some names of players I believe need to be considered to add to the Bears roster:
G-->Faneca, Bell, Hadnot
T--> Adams, Starks
WR--> Bernard Berrian, Bears. Age: 27.
Bernard Berrian had 71 catches for 951 yards and five touchdowns last season. Not bad considering the crap Chicago had at the quarterback position. Berrian's an explosive receiver, but sometimes criticized for dropping too many balls.# D.J. Hackett, Seahawks. Age: 27.
I marked D.J. Hackett as a fantasy sleeper. Unfortunately, he only played four full games. In those contests, however, he had 384 receiving yards and three touchdowns. Not too shabby.# Bryant Johnson, Cardinals. Age: 27.
Although he was chosen in the first round of 2003, Bryant Johnson never had more than 740 receiving yards. I know he was stuck behind Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin, but he didn't really do much when they were out.# Donte' Stallworth, Patriots. Age: 27.
The Patriots elected not to exercise the option of Donte Stallworth's contract, thus voiding it. Stallworth is unquestionably a talented receiver, but he's a bit lower on this list than he should be because he's so injury-prone. Caveat emptor.RB- Unless the Bears doll out the $ for Turner, I don't see any FA RB coming in.
You can almost guarantee at least one of these players will be in a Bears uni in '08...
Jerry will address these positions in FA as well as the draft, but I'm sure he'd rather continue to use his draft picks to regain and maintain a championship caliber defense. I'm sure he hasn't forgotten how the defense collapsed last year when a few key players went down. It would be a wise idea to add depth to positions that are occupied either by players whose health in uncertain or who are just unproven: (M. Brown, D. Dvoracek, B. Urlacher, T. Harris, K. Payne).
Point is I want to see a SPLASH! soon. It needs to happen, and I can't wait for that moment to come. Because it has to.... There is no other alternative for JA. I just hope if he's faced with a decision to add a guy who is proven or has tremendous upside but wants a $ figure just above what the Bears are willing to offer, I hope he'll compromise and pull the trigger on a deal that could make a big impact in '08 and beyond.
Pull the trigger Jerry and make that SPLASH!
February 26, 2008
#66 Pissed Off said . . .My jerseys - A-Train, Payton, and James "Big Cat" Williams
I want Kruetz, Rashied, and Mike Brown
February 26, 2008
#67 Sarg said . . .Ok, I've been gone for a while and apparently somone's been using my name again. None of these posts are mine. Let me make one thing clear: I dislike Grossman and I fully endorse the idea of Orton starting at QB. Like it or not, the Bears are rebuilding and a run to the Super Bowl is out of the question. Might as well let the youngster get his experience while we suck for the next couple years. I plan on buying an Orton jersey as my plege of support.
February 26, 2008
#68 Al in WI said . . .Glad to see you've pulled your head out of your ass, PO'd.
February 26, 2008
#69 Mike said . . .I have a Charles Martin jersey.
February 26, 2008
#70 Pissed Off said . . .In my mom's basement I have a Muhammad jersey hanging next to my David Hasselhoff poster. I'm German and therefore love David Hasselhoff.
February 26, 2008
#71 Megan said . . .I always knew there was something queer about you, Mike. And now I know it's because you're German.
February 26, 2008
#72 Pissed Off said . . .Currently Urlacher
Past-Butkus/ Hampton,
I wish I had Plank's ....
I'm a defense gal.February 26, 2008
#73 Mike said . . .Number 66 and 70 not me. But I'm sure its sarg, who might not be Mike after all. Unless he likes dissing himself. Hey Sarg do you want to go by "sarge" or are you just too stupid to realize you need to add the "e".... "Sarg" sounds like "farg". Anywho Im a bit surprised to find there is another negativist like Mike around here, unless, like I said he even makes fun of himself.
Whats the local rumors today? I gotta get to the sites and PFT yet this morning.
February 26, 2008
#74 Phil from SATX said . . .Make no mistake, Kyle Orton is being given full opportunity to be the starting QB of the rebuilding 2008 Chicago Bears. All things being equal in the competition with Rex Grossman??? Then Orton will win out. All you have to do is look at the contract situations (to include the incentives within Orton's deal) to understand that.
I'm not happy about Orton being the guy. Frankly I think he is a weirdo who can't hit the broad side of a barn with most his passes. But can he be as good as the enigmatic Rex Grossman? I guess so.
All I know is the Bears have a crappy poker hand at the QB position.
February 26, 2008
#75 Sarg said . . .Mike, now I gotta disagree with you. You can't analyze these two contracts and come to any conclusion about which QB is preferred or which will win a QB competition. They are apparently essentially identical contracts, with the difference being that Orton's includes some comp this year. The only conclusion you CAN come to is they're valuing the two quarterbacks equally, which is about as far as they can go in trying to assure Orton that the competition will be real.
If I'm rooting for Kyle to win the competition, I'm going to cry foul after he (inevitably) loses it. I'm going to say that where Kyle moves ahead of Rex is in "real game" situations, in being better at handling intense pressure and making fewer mistakes. The preseason, I'm going to argue, is skewed in favor of a better passer like Rex, without providing the pressure of the real games.
That's if I was rooting for Kyle to win, which I'm not. I'll root for him if he becomes the starter, of course, but I still think Rex gives us the best chance to win in 2008 (and beyond).
February 26, 2008
#76 Pissed Off said . . .Mike = D-bag.
Right, Mike. Just like we can book it and make no mistake that Rex will not be on the Bears roster for 2008. Now you want us to think that Orton will beat out Rex for the starting job. C'mon man, your "fearless" predictions are getting comical. You've been doing this for months.
Rex has been to handling school, Orton has not.
February 26, 2008
#77 Phil from SATX said . . .Nice.
Living near Vikingsland I found out that Tony Richardson, pro bowl FB, from the Vikes and previously the Chiefs will become an unrestriced FA if they dont re-sign him by thursday. This guy would solve our "true, do it all FB" need we've had for years.
February 26, 2008
#78 Pissed Off said . . .Only thing is, PO'd, he's 36. That's pretty dang old, even for a blocker. I realize that he got in the Pro Bowl in 2007, so he must still be pretty good. But that's old, and being that he has been a multiple time Pro Bowler, I always wonder whether he really deserved it or got it on past laurels and name recognition. Don't know because I don't watch the Vikings but 2 times a year, and all I remember from last year was some guy named Adrian Peterson.
February 26, 2008
#79 mikebdot said . . .I'd still take a shot at him with a one or two year deal like the Vikes did. If he was pro-bowl caliber last year he's still got something left. And he must know thats all any team is going to offer is 2 years at most, more than likely one.
February 26, 2008
#80 Phil from SATX said . . .I would like any upgrade at FB. Drafting one in a later round (like Runnels) would be a waste. I think our type of offense is geared toward someone more like Leonard from last year's class or Jacob Hester from this year's (though he was really slow at the combine). You know, someone that can run the football AND block. Last year, McKie did neither all that well. In fact, McKie was almost as bad as most of our O-line run blocking.
February 26, 2008
#81 JAB said . . .I agree Mikeb, just a waste of a position with McKie in there. Only thing is, I've never heard any inklings out of BT that that is a position they're interested in upgrading. Wish they would.
February 26, 2008
#82 tenacious d said . . .The Bears had to pay Orton to make it look like it's going to be an open competition between he and Rex. I think we all know this is going to end with Rex winning the starting job and Orton waiting for him to get hurt or suck himself off the field. Lets hope that a revamped O-line is the answer and a decent running back opens up the passing game.
February 26, 2008
#83 mikebdot said . . .jeff, I know this is off-topic, but do you know if we get compensatory picks this year if we lose Briggs and Berrian, and if so, what rounds? Thanks.
February 26, 2008
#84 Max said . . .tenacious d: We get nothing if we lose Berrian or Briggs. They are unrestricted free agents on Friday if they don't sign the, surely, mediocre offers they've been given already.
February 26, 2008
#85 tenacious d said . . .im totally down with Tony Richardson . . . do it. . . now. . . please
February 26, 2008
#86 JB said . . .mike: Not the answer I was hoping for but thanks all the same.
February 26, 2008
#87 Rancid said . . .Tenacious d:
from: http://football.about.com/library/weekly/bl_draftcomp.htm
Based on the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement:
A team is eligible to receive compensatory draft picks if it is determined that they lost more or better players than they were able to acquire during the previous year's free agency period. The number of picks a team receives equals the net loss of compensatory free agents (maximum of four).
Compensatory free agents are determined by a formula that was developed by the NFL Management Council. Not every free agent lost or signed by a team is covered by this formula.
and from wikipedia:
In addition to the 32 picks in each round, there are a total of up to 32 picks dispersed at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as "compensatory picks," are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. So, for example, a team that lost a linebacker who signed for $2.5 million per year in free agency might get a sixth-round compensatory pick, while a team that lost a wide receiver who signed for $5 million per year might receive a fourth-round pick.
If fewer than 32 such picks are awarded, the remaining picks are awarded in the order in which teams would pick in a hypothetical eighth round of the draft.
Compensatory picks are awarded each year at the NFL annual meeting which is held at the end of March; typically, about three or four weeks before the draft.
So, basically it would depend on what we do this year in FA and it would reflect in the '09 draft. The '08 compensatory picks have not yet been established.February 26, 2008
#88 mikebdot said . . .In my opinion I believe this is going to be a legitimate QB competition. I don't understand those who think it is one guy or the other's job already. Now, with that said, it is more likely that Rex will win the job. I don't think that makes this a fake competition, I just think that it has a favorite. I bet even KO realizes this. He know he has to show up huge in the pre-season to beat out a QB with better tangibles. He is probably working his ass off right now to try to get there. Rex is also realizing that he pretty-much gets a mulligan for last year and essentially gets to repeat his contract year. So he has to be fairly motivated this offseason too.
I wish there had been a better FA vet available or a rookie that could be drafted at 14, and start from day one. That's not reality. The reality is that we made the best available move for 08 and the future. Those who are overjoyed and worry-free at Rex's signing should probably be more cautious, those who are completely depressed should pay more attention to the NFL world and take this decision for what it was: the best move in these circumstances. we will head into preseason with 2 very different QB's competing for the start, and while I think that Rex will likely win, I believe it is a straight up competition.
February 26, 2008
#89 tenacious d said . . .I (might) stand corrected.
February 26, 2008
#90 JAB said . . .JB: Thanks for the response. Sounds like we may be eligible for few extra picks in 2009 draft if we lose B & B, but only if we don't make a big splash in free agency this year. I'd rather have the big splash.
I could be wrong, but I don't see us getting extra picks in this year's draft since I can't recall losing any free agents of note after last season. Do you recall any?
February 27, 2008
#91 B. K. said . . .We lost Boone and Ian Scott. Maybe someone else as well.
February 27, 2008
#92 B. K. said . . .Kyle Orton & Rex Grossman Sucks!! The Bears are not going anywhere this comming season as long as the are relying on either of them to be starters.. The Chicago Bears need a Quarter Back...
April 6, 2008
#93 Makoko said . . .Rex Grossman Sucks! Kyle Orton is a good backup prospect.. The Chicago Bears needs a Quarter Back. That's plain and simple!!! They won't make the playoffs this coming season if they don't get a quality Quarter Back.
April 6, 2008
#94 Makoko said . . .I have been a Chicago Bears' fan since the 80's... I am tired of waiting for the team to try to improve their Quarter Back Roster. I am more than disappointed with Rex Grossman... Kyle Orton is a good person for a backup position...The Bears need a Quarter Back who don't have to totally rely on the defense to put points on the board.. I don't anticipate a winning season this coming season under the present circumstances... "For God's Sakes Bears, Get A Quarter Back!!!"
April 6, 2008
GET A QUARTER BACK CHICAGO BEARS!!!
April 6, 2008
Here at DaBearsBlog, you are free to kill us or the Bears as you so wish. You are not free, however, to be an asshole. So if you spew racism or ill-meaning foul language (cursing about football is just fine) or anything of that ilk, your comments ain't gonna last long, jerk.