The following is a piece I simply felt I had to write, even though it’s relationship to the Chicago Bears is tangential at best. Christopher “Mad Dog” Russo left the Mike and Mad Dog radio program Friday, a decision which made me profoundly sad. This is my response. Tomorrow night I’ll return to Bears commentary with a preview of the third preseason game. Thanks for obliging.
I became a sports fan in the backyard of 66 Pleasant Place in Kearny, New Jersey as the 1980s – without so much as a warning - became the 1990s. Plastic yellow wiffle ball bats draped across half a basketball court in the shadow of the best damn swimming pool a kid could dream up. There was me. A couple of parents who may or may not be speaking to each other. Two brothers definitely not speaking to each other. And a small radio playing – for six hours a day – the endlessly speaking Mike Francesca and Chris Russo. They weren’t just talk show hosts - isolated in a studio in some foreign land called Queens. They were part of the family.
As I got older, my relationship with them evolved as any good relationship does. I remember driving my mother’s Volvo on Route 3 (just because I could), their voices providing the soundtrack to my automotive freedom. (Replace Harry Nilsson’s reassuring vocals on Everybody’s Talkin with the screeches of a lunatic and pomposity of an always-in-the-right father).
Holed up in an AM radio-deficient Manhattan dorm room, I moved to the internet with them – something neither of us seemed to understand as it was happening.
As I began writing professionally for the theatre, they’ve become a constant television companion, allowing me to write alone without feeling isolated. Those same two guys from the backyard reminding me where I came from.
Mike Francesca and Christopher Russo made it okay to love sports so much it made your heart bleed.
They made it okay for my twelve year-old brother to cry when Bruce Coslett’s Jets were bounced from the 1990 postseason by the Houston Oilers. Made it okay for my father to cry when Edgar Martinez knocked the 1995 New York Yankees from the playoffs. Made it okay for me to fail at containing myself as I filled fifty plastic champagne cups, celebrating a brilliant Chicago Bears victory over the New Orleans Saints, sending them to XLI.
Say what you want about their opinions – which ranged from remarkably honest to odd to downright idiotic – they loved sports. Their passion was infectious. In this disheartening era of American culture, those who legitimately change the world (George Carlin) are seemingly given less media attention than those who achieve nothing beyond giving me my first hard-on (Anna Nicole Smith) or interviewing folks (Tim Russert). In the words of Linda Loman, “Attention must be paid.”
Mike and the Mad Dog changed the sports world forever. They invented talking sports on the radio. They created a generation of kids like me who never felt ashamed to consider a ball club an important part of their life. My love of the Chicago Bears (and subsequently this site) might not have existed without them. For that I am truly thankful. And I will miss them.
#2 Rob C said . . .Well done Jeff. One of the best stories I've seen written. Seriously. Kudos.
August 20, 2008
#3 enderwiggin said . . .nice write up, curious if there is game once a year that people on this site should try to tailgate for or have a central location to meet up at the game. I'm trying to get tickets for the Thursday night Saints game right now or the Packers game in Dec.
non-bears article but a good one
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/19/afghan.attack.survivor/index.htmlAugust 20, 2008
#4 So.Ill Bears Fan said . . .Great article! It was nice coming home from work and reading a possitve piece. Much more relaxing than quarterback bashing.
August 20, 2008
#5 Kyle said . . .Nice write up Jeff!
Makes me reminisce back to when I fell in love with this game.
I'm new to the blog, hardly say anything, but do check it everyday, seein what you guys have to say about our beloved Burnt Orange & Navy Blue Soldiers....
Anyway, I was just curious, being from Jersey and all, how did the Bears become your favorite team?
And any other outta state fans feel free to chime in on how you fell in love wit the BearsAugust 20, 2008
#6 Phil from SATX said . . .I see on Sportscenter last night that Anquan Boldin has asked to be traded, and said there is no resolving his situation in Arizona. Immediately I think of the Bears, and how this would be a perfect opportunity to give the offense a chance, and to give Kyle Orton some actual talent to work with. The Bears have money under the cap correct? Why not go make an actual move and try to legitimize this offense. Please JA, ammend your crimes against this offense.
August 20, 2008
#7 Pissed Off said . . .Another beautiful and heartfelt piece of writing Jeff. Makes me wish we could read some of your plays, huh? How about that? I feel compelled to say that while it goes with out saying that we're all intense Bear fans here, spend a while on here and you will undoubtedly and inevitably become a big Jeff Hughes fan too.
Back to football - Kyle, I was thinking on the way in to work about posing the exact same question. Why wouldn't a big trade for Anquan Boldin make sense for this team? We've all become aware of the inequity in the spending on offense and defense - we all know that there's no true #1 receiver on this team - we know how hard it is for this group of management to select and develop offensive players from scratch - why not pick up a bona fide #1 and show both the offensive players and the whole of Bear fandom that you are committed to winning? And please don't answer me with a dismissive "da Bears're cheap." We already know that's not the case anymore. You could answer "the Bears don't make big moves like that" and I'd buy that response, but I'd still say, how about changing that now?
Here's the problem with the current situation - they're really relying on Hester to become a #1. They know they don't have any other real possibilities - yes, they'll name someone a #1 (Lloyd? Davis?) but that doesn't MAKE them a #1. We know Hester's got a long way to go, and we also know the only way to get him there is to use him ALL THE TIME. I'm pretty certain this special kid WILL get injured at some point in this season if he lines up nearly every play at WR. It will happen. Then we'll be cursing the move, especially since it will probably occur before he's had much impact.
Playing him any less than steadily means teams key on him when he's in there - making him at best an effective decoy - and looking a lot like last year, which wasn't too great.
Bring in a Boldin, pay the picks and the money, and now you've got a legit #1 and can pick from Lloyd or Davis or Bradley or Bennett or even Hester as your #2. Make it a long term deal, and then even if Kyle doesn't make it this year, you're ready to bring in someone who can next year.
I say do it. It makes sense, for this team probably more than any other. I don't know what it would take, but I'm not sure it makes a difference (especially if it's about draft picks). Just do it.
August 20, 2008
#8 Phil from SATX said . . .This is regarding comment mainly from the last thread:
Some of you are seriously delusional in your thinking that this was a real competition. Why would an unbiased, non bear fan source (Hub Arkush from profootballweekly) who heard internally from a reliable source that they decided in June kyle was going to be the QB run with this story in the national media if it werent true weeks before Lovie even announced who the starter is going to be? Most coaches were in on this decision (including the guy who calls the plays, Turder) and the deck was stacked against Rex in the fact that they called plays for him so as that he wouldnt succeed. This is further evidenced by the fact that in his 20+ pass plays not one of them was a bomb attempt down the field. Pretty sure that in 20+ snaps over 2 games that play would have been called at least a couple of times, its called 2 or more times every full game Rex plays and for it not to even be attempted??? Those plays werent called because if Rex connects on even one of those for a TD, it looks so much more stellar than anyting Kyle can do that they'd have had to name Rex the starter or look even more like idiots. This regime is corrupt.
August 20, 2008
#9 Brian in Sec 430 Row 25 said . . .PO'd, here's why your theory doesn't make any sense. The Bears didn't have to sign Grossman to a one year deal. In fact, if politics or public opinion or anything like that had anything to do with it, they would have cut him and moved on.
The only plausible reason to pay him for another year was if they intended to at least try to use him. To me, this was the best evidence that HE, not Kyle, had the leg up on the QB derby. Otherwise why sign him? It made sense to me that Kyle was resigned to be a backup, because he looked more like a credible backup than starter to me. And remember that although both got 1 year deals, for Kyle it was an extension so he's signed through next year.
If this thing were done for looks only, Grossman wouldn't even have been a part of it.
Say what you want, but Rex played himself out of the running in the Seattle game. He needed to show up, and instead he provided a plausible preview for what it might look like against a good D in Indianapolis on September 7. I really don't think they had much of a choice, and I think they made the right choice. Now we all have to band together and hope that Kyle does a good job.
I don't believe Shady will mind me copying his post from yesterday - I think it's the best argued post about this, and I really think it's irrefutable -
From Post #43, yesterday, compliments of SHADY
I think the reason Rex Grossman needed to shine was because he had to show the coaches why they shouldn't give the job to Kyle. Picking up at the end of last year, Kyle showed that he was able to manage the offense which proved to be enough to win games. In order for the Bears to make a decision to go with Grossman over Orton (again), they needed evidence that Rex had eliminated (or at least minimized) his downside and that he could handle the shitty situation he would be thrown into on offense. Unfortunately for Rex and his supporters, he didn't do enough to prove that he could keep his head above water under such awful offensive conditions and his trademark mistakes were rearing their ugly heads again and again. Is Rex the better QB with a strong line? Yes, but that's not what he's going to get this year. Orton has shown on a consistent basis that he can handle these adverse conditions better than his counterpart Grossman, and that's why the Bears made the right decision to name Kyle Orton the starter.
Everybody knows the Bears defense just needs an offense to get out of its way in order to make it back to the playoffs. A healthy and rested defense SHOULD be enough to make a run at the playoffs, especially in the weak NFC/ NFC North. The best way to accomplish this is to eliminate turnovers and by running the ball. Orton has proved over time (including this most recent competition) that he is the more consistent QB. Offensive inconsistency has been one of the biggest obstacles for this team to overcome. Finding some sort of consistency could be a BIG key to the team's overall success this year and maybe, just maybe, Kyle Orton will bring some sort consistency to this offense which might be enough to give this team a shot in the playoffs. It ain't 'sexy', but it'll get the job done and that's all that matters.
Nice job Shady, it was worth repeating.
August 20, 2008
#10 Pissed Off said . . .Very nice piece Jeff. Other's may know this already but I am curious, how did you become a Bears fan growing up in NJ?
August 20, 2008
#11 minnie Mad Dog said . . .Phil they made the decision in June to start Orton, not February or whenever it was that they re-signed Rex. Maybe when the re-signed him they had every intention of naming him the starter or letting there be a real competition for QB. They changed their mind. And Angelo does the signings, not Lovie and his staff who are the ones who made the decision to start Orton in June so maybe Lovie didnt want Rex re-signed, who knows.
And I did say what I want I will continue to believe the facts....that Rex never could have won the job.
August 20, 2008
#12 Phil from SATX said . . .I have to agree with "Pissed Off" post #7. This was not a real QB contest and the deck probably was stacked. In the last game, all the QBs had a chance to do was run for their lives. Grossman is, realistically, mostly a drop back QB and not too mobile. But given time to set and look around, he has a bigger arm than Kyle and (more importantly) is much more accurate. Anyway, if something does not happen with the offensive line, neither quarterback will last more than 3 weeks before ending up in the hospital.
On the O-line topic, I feel our coaching staff really let us down. Big time. At the end of last year, even morons (Star and Trib?) knew the Bears had a major problem with the offensive line. So what did the coaches do? They drafted one expensive, damaged-goods rookie who can't even make it to pre-season. And we start this season in the same predicament we were in last year.
All that said, I will support Kyle 100%, hope the offensive line improves, and hope for the best. If the defense stays reasonably healthy and special teams play as they can, Kyle will win a lot of games. Special teams and defense will do 40% of the scoring, and Hester will give Kyle starting position at the 40 yard line. I'll take that.
August 20, 2008
#13 craig said . . .Wasn't it Shady who had the encounter with Ron Turner? Remember when RT kind of rolled his eyes when he talked about Rex? Shady, help me out - was that you? That was a great close encounter which I thought was proven wrong by the Rex re-signing - but PO'd, it's possible you're right - that maybe Angelo and even Lovie liked Rex but RT didn't. I wouldn't put it past that inept bastard to try to thwart Rex either if he didn't want him. But Rex didn't help his cause at all - he needed to make it obvious, and he really did the opposite.
Minnie, you're right - the offseason maneuverings (or lack thereof) of the O line are unfortunately what may end up defining this season, and are utterly inexcusable. Everyone from Angelo to Lovie to RT to Harry Hiestand will be dumped off the end of Navy Pier to become food for prehistoric sturgeon if that line becomes the reason we don't succeed this year. One signing is not a plan. You have to expect injuries - that's why you have backups - just look at the D to see how this is supposed to work. One injury is not bad luck, either - it's expected. All the injuries on D last year - that's bad luck. Chris Williams going down is NOT bad luck, and had to be planned for. The 2008 Oline may become Jerry & Co's Waterloo.
August 20, 2008
#14 Rancid said . . .Well done, Jeff, from one Jerseyman to another.
As for our Bears: I'm now somewhat recovered from the feelings of despair that followed Saturday's game. But you know what would make me feel even better?
Trade for Boldin. It's a no-brainer.
August 20, 2008
#15 mikebdot said . . .Jeff - Thanks for the small peek into the history of your personal sports heritage. For me those guys were just another sports radio show who I listened to with relative indifference so it's interesting to see how key they were to you. I'm sure anyone who stays on this blog year round is a bit more obsessed with sports than a healthy person should be and I bet that each of us have points in our past and influences we can point to that brought us here.
August 20, 2008
#16 Pissed Off said . . .PO'd: ask yourself this very simple question. Is it 100% clear that Rex would perform better than Orton based on his performance in the two preseason games? If the answer is "no", why are you assuming there was some sort of huge conspiracy? This isn't the French judge in the Olympics we're talking about here. I mean, it is not 100% clear Grossman played better, right? I just don't see how you can argue that there was no competition since Rex didn't perform much better than Orton. It was literally a toss up based on performance on the field.
August 20, 2008
#17 mikebdot said . . .I would like to be done with this issue. I have stated my piece and if some dont want to believe what I believe is true (see #7 and #10) whatever...it was stated.
Mikeb, your question is valid and my response is "no" however Rex wasnt given the opportunity to shine in those preseason games due to the deck being stacked against him in the form of bad play calling (no downfield throws, no plays that play into his abilities whereas Kyle had exactly that) and him getting pulled when momentum was starting, etc. It was a toss-up based on the preseason performaces (still didnt warrant Kyle gettin the edge and being named the starter though) but again, Rex didnt get the chance to outperform Kyle in the games, see above.
August 20, 2008
#18 shonbear said . . .Well, PO'd, by your logic, one could make the very same argument that KYLE wasn't given a chance to shine in those games either. You know, since he wasn't able to get into a rhythm, etc. etc. etc. It just seems like you're finding evidence to support a preconceived notion, rather than seeing evidence and making an informed decision. None of know what plays were actually called. Who the primary receiver was supposed to be, etc. I think the fact that he couldn't move the chains hurt him and it is highly possible he still has issues due to previous injuries. Who knows if he is even fully healed from last year's injury?
Crap, now we hear something that Berrian had turf toe last season. Why the hell didn't I hear that one? Maybe I just missed that particular report...
The coaches job is to misinform the public, not because they want to deceive US, but to deceive others. It seems to me Lovie is very much into the philosophy found in something like "the art of war", it's just we have to put up with it as fans.
August 20, 2008
#19 shonbear said . . .I agree with POd. I also think that its mostly on Rex for not blowing this thing out of the park and forcing the coaches to have to start him despite them setting him up for failure. This was his opportunity to play outside himself and e a champion no matter what he faced. His opponents were the coaches with their play calling and timing for what was left in the KC game and not allowing him to have that last drive, the O line, the Seattle Defense, the media, the FWFs, the Seattle fans, the pass dropping receivers, Kyle and lastly himself. He was expected to be able to as Lovie put it "make a play" in the face of all the adversity. He accomplishes that and he wins.
Was it fair, i think not. What I think is the coaches needed to tell him that they were not on even playing ground in the first place. Rex its a competition, but you need to do more than "just beat Kyle".
The way i gather it, thats not what they told them and its not what they told us, but all the physical evidence supports this theory.
August 20, 2008
#20 animal said . . .How about the possibility that BB lied about that and its just an excuse for him not to perform since hes been paid now. Im sure the vikings were excited to hear they paid 40-50 some mil for a guy that has turf toe. YES!
August 20, 2008
#21 jeff said . . .Dear Jerry,
You have opened the vault this year to pay our guys. We thank you. Just one more request, though, at the risk of sounding greedy.
Please give up the 2nd round pick it will take to get Anquan Boldin. Please. For every Hester you get with a second rounder, there are many more Bazuins, Bradleys, Mannings.
We will make you this deal, Jerry. We will forgive you for giving away the linchpin of the offense of our Super Bowl Team, TJ, for Dan Fucking Bazuin. Never again will we bitch about it, because acquiring Boldin would reverse this travesty and possibly make Kyle Orton look like an NFL QB.
Just do it, Jerry.
Sincerely,
Animal and Co.August 20, 2008
#22 Kyle said . . .can you change your ID name on here to Animal and Co.
i like it
August 20, 2008
#23 mikebdot said . . .Phil, agreed. Trading for and signing Boldin would only help Devin develop as a top receiver, defenses would have to gameplan for Boldin and attention would be taken away from Devin. Adding a big target like Boldin, to go along with the TE duo, and Devin as a deep threat, KO may actually have the tools to succeed--if only the O-line can be passable.
And just my two cents, even just reading Ron Turner's comments about Rex, one can see his disdain for the guy. He was Orton all the way.
August 20, 2008
#24 jeff said . . .This offseason has become an excuse for everyone to bitch and moan about their pet bullshit causes. Or, put simply, what Bears fans do best.
August 20, 2008
#25 mikebdot said . . .i'd write about boldin today but i did it throughout march and i'm tired of asking for things we don't get. nevertheless, it makes too much sense.
August 20, 2008
#26 Bill said . . .PO'd: The more I think about this, the more I am convinced. I really think Rex's cadence are the problem. This would explain our inability to run the football. This would explain people jumping offsides. This would explain holding penalties. This would explain poor route running. This would explain dropped snaps. Maybe the kid just doesn't have any rhythm, hence his inability to get into one...
Either that, or it is so static that the defense can tell when the ball will be hiked before it actually happens.
Just a pet theory of mine. I just have a hard time believing that the coaching staff is deliberately calling poor plays. I don't think they are competent enough to know what NOT to call, mostly because I don't feel they are competent enough to know what to call. Sort of why I don't buy into the 9/11 conspiracy theories...Bush isn't that smart!
August 20, 2008
#27 mikebdot said . . .Just my quick take on the QB competition. As Rex said, the coaches knew what he could and couldn't do. What he COULD do is be a great QB. What he COULDN'T do is translate that talent into consitency during games. Not even preseason games. He was given one more chance but I truly believe they doubted he coudl do it.
Why no bombs? Becuase they knew he could do that. It just clouds the issue if he connects. They wanted to see good decision making under pressure. He had the pressue in the Seattle game and didn't handle it well. The defining moment for me was him running backwards when a sack was inevitable. Giving up even more yardage. C'mon Rex - do you think you'll out run them?
August 20, 2008
#28 AK said . . .The Bears Chalk Talk email inbox is full! All I wanted to ask good old Larry (beyond the "How many polish sausages have been sold at Soldier Field?") was "What's our cap situation and can we afford Boldin". God forbid they put up something there that is mildly informative. "How has Orton improved?". We can use the entire play book! I fucking hate that story as much as "Rex had 7 games with a 100 rating+ game". Makes me want to throw shit.
August 20, 2008
#29 Shady said . . .So Rex had to literally blow people out of the water (without getting maimed in the process) and Kyle just had to be Mr. Game Manager for him to win?
I honestly did not see any difference between the two in the preseason games.
If there were any hint of Rex being favored and then given the job over Kyle after both of them haven't proved anything, I think the KO fans would have something to say about that.
August 20, 2008
#30 mikebdot said . . .Quick check in on my lunch break, remember this site is blocked from my office...
Yeah I ran into Ron Turner up here at Northbrook Court last winter, he was buying some Levis jeans. I told him we needed to get him some more weapons on offense and he told me he just hoped to keep Berrian around (which as we know, didn't happen). After he mentioned keeping Berrian I said something like, "And Rex too?" and he looked at me and said, "Yeah....... Rex too." There was definitely a hesitation in there.
August 20, 2008
#31 Pissed Off said . . .Shady: Good story.
August 20, 2008
#32 mikebdot said . . .Bill how do you figure Rex couldnt translate consistency into preseason games? Was he wildly inconsistent in those whole 20+ pass play snaps he took. Where is your logic there? Where is your argument for inconsistency, his numbers were virtually the same as Kyles were. Again I'll say he didnt get the chance to succeed. Your point for not throwing any bombs is laughable in my opinion....why throw bombs you ask....oh I dont know to see how accurate he is, how well he can throw, his mechanics, how he views the field and most importantly show that he can put points on the board, thats the goal of an offense isnt it? I forget? If he can do that why not have him be the guy? They didnt want him to be the guy, thats why. I understand your point of seeing how he handles pressure but NO QB in the history of the NFL could've handled the pressure he got in the Seattle game, not even the beloved Kyle Orton. Rex was in a competition and thats why he didnt go down to save yardage, he was trying to make a play to save his chances and possibly his career, if it were a reg season game I think he goes down right away or throws it at the feet of a TE or WR so as to not get an INT but not an intentional grounding.
Mikeb I dont understand your point there about Rex's cadence being the reason for all the mishaps you mentioned. Unless we have different definitions of cadence (I think of it as his rythm and flow within the offense) it doesnt make sense. Please explain. I'm not sure how rythm of flow translates to a poor run game or offensive penalties and poor route running.
August 20, 2008
#33 mikebdot said . . .PO'd: Cadence...hut...hut hut...when hiking the football. His pre-snap talking. His ability to identify the mike. Etc. I'm concerned about him having a tell that he's about to hike the ball. Or that he is confusing the linemen/receivers/tight ends/backs as to the timing of the 3rd/4th/1st hike.
August 20, 2008
#34 Pissed Off said . . .That would then explain a certain number of the following:
Linemen stepping on his feet.
Dropped snaps
A receiver starting late into his pattern thus fucking up the whole play on his side of the field
All linemen/fullbacks/tight ends moving towards the proposed running lane
Linemen reacting later than expected and thus having to hold
Linemen acting ealier than expected thus false startingSpecifically, I am trying to figure out why we were so undisciplined in '06 and '07 vs. '05. All the linemen were the same. All the receivers were the same. Clark was the TE in '05 and '06. What changed? The QB.
I was originally going to say "well, Grossman couldn't get into a rhythm since there was a penalty on 4 of 5 of his drives". Well, one of them was the bs intentional grounding call, but there was a hold and I think two false starts? There was also a far different situation regarding how much pressure there was in Grossman's face. Perhaps Orton did a better job adjusting the linemen's responsibilities, etc.?
There would have to be a collective group effort from all the coaches to call shit plays for Grossman. I just don't find that to be a likely cause. Something much more simple seems like a better possibility. Perhaps the QB was the difference.
Like I said, just a theory. Well, I suppose scientifically speaking it isn't, more of a conjecture. The season will put it to the test though...
August 20, 2008
#35 jeff said . . .Sorry I've honestly never heard that term referring to the hike. I think were digging for reasons if we're going with that and wouldn't have some defensive player over the years come out and said it or wouldnt the coaches have identified it and it would be fixed now, or are you thinking its just starting now? Most importantly and most obviously, wouldnt have one of the offensive players over the years brought this up to Rex or the staff?
August 20, 2008
#36 Jimbo said . . .AK, are there any KO fans?
August 20, 2008
#37 Pissed Off said . . .Rex couldn't air it out beacuse he had about 1 second to find a WR and throw it to them. The O-Line fucked him over about as bad a Turner. When he has time (aka back in 2006 when we had a running game and decent O-line, and were not always sitting 3rd and 8) he can light it up.
Turner (admitly) didnt ever try to establish a running game. Rex played with the 2's in his first game, then got hammered by the blitz in the second. Now my problem is this: why the fuck didn't Turner, knowing full well what was going on, call some plays to counter the blitz???? Whatever, i'm not gonna cry about this. truth is this offense is NOT setup to play to Rex's strenghts.
In fairness, Orton (aka a game manager) is really the best thing for this team right now . Our O-line is too shitty to even setup any bomobs down field. Think about it... turner lacks the creativity to utilize Hester, Olson, Clark, or anyone else at a skill position, how the fuck is he going to come up with a game plan for a guy like Rex.
I really hope orton proves me wrong, but i see this move as the chicago bears admiting that our offense is going to suck balls, and we are just going to play as conservative as possible and pray to GOD that our D and special teams can win games for us.
Those units can surely do that, when healthy, but ask yourself this... how many super bowl winners were not balanced on both sides of the ball. Hopefully Orton proves to be alot more than just a Trent Dilfer or Chad Pennington, or john kitna... Maybe he is a Tony Romo, or at least a fucking Jeff Garcia.
Orton can step up in the pocket and dump off the ball on a screen or short slant. Thats probably all he'll have time to do. Welcome back to the nickle and dime offense. At least Robbie Gould will be earning his raise.
Sorry but if you want me to be excited beacuse orton steped into a preseason game and ran the 2 minute offense 57 yards to setup a field goal against the seahawks #2 D playing prevent... shit even brian gresie did that and more against Pilly last year. Not impressed.
Rex probably wasnt the answer... but comon Orton isnt going to be leading this team for the next 3-5 seasons. Hes a band-aid. Hes a younger, less proven and less experienced brian gresie... and hes just a guy who no one HATES.
Man maybe i should have gotten my morning coffee... but i am grouchy as shit about this whole cluster fuck of an O we have. Yeah Boldin would be worth a #2 pick and Ricky manning Jr. That would help. I'd rather get a left tackle for a 1st round pick. Actually, considering our drafting ability on offense, maybe we should start trading either a 1st or 2nd round pick every season for a proven player at the skill positions??
August 20, 2008
#38 jeff said . . .Plus its not like he's never been successful, your making is sound like sustaining drives was a miracle the past few seasons but you're right this year should be the tell if Orton plays a significant amount of games. I still think your digging but I also think the problem would have been addressed and solved by now.
And I think its also very likely that it was staff effort (or at least a chunk of the staff, it doesnt take more than a few to make the debouchery work) to derail Rex's chances with bad play calling, etc. This source that Hub spoke of most certainly wasnt Lovie, probably someone much lower on the totem pole so if it got to him it had already been run thru most of the coaching staff.
August 20, 2008
#39 Jimbo said . . .may i remind people it's the preseason. can we at least save the negativity till the score counts? or at least til they game plan for the first time, tomorrow night?
August 20, 2008
#40 Rancid said . . .Yeah, sorry guys, that was maybe unecessarly negitive. Ok, i will say this, i think this D can be really special. They did alot of good things in that seattle game (granted not matt hassleback). But they are flying to the ball again. And hitting people (payne laid the hurt to cause that fumble). Our D-line is going to be freaking awesome... and we have the necessary depth to sustain some bumbs and bruises.
Plus watching Benett run that punt back reminded me that our special teams is still awesome. Actually if he can learn to catch teh ball better (even hester had trouble his first season) he could be a nice guy to have out there if they start squibbing and kicking away from hester again.
Go Bears!
August 20, 2008
#41 jdawg said . . .You would think that we have to be waiting to pick up a O lineman after everyone makes cuts. Not that that makes me feel any better. Oh goody, other teams sloppy seconds.
August 20, 2008
#42 PolygonHell said . . .Why didn't the coaches change things? Maybe they wanted to see how Rex would handle what every team in the NFL was going to throw his way, should he start. He can audible and he can check down. He should be able to read blitzes and sense pressure.
He didn't and he can't.
Would Kyle have the following if he had been blitzed 4 series in a row:
2 sacks
1 intentional grounding call
1 int.Look at those three lines. Rinse. Repeat.
August 20, 2008
#43 Bill said . . .To me the issue isn't whether the Deck was stacked against Rex, it's did he know?
If he went into it eyes open it's a none issue. If he didn't as I've said before I'd be more concerned with how it's percieved by there team mates than how it affects the QB situation.
Kyle may not have won the competition, but he didn't loose it. And given the fan pressure and a 2 year vs 1 year contract, you go with Kyle.
They could have dragged out the decision, but frankly they needed to get past it.
I'm interested to see how the offense plays Thursday, and what the offensive play calling looks like.
August 20, 2008
#44 jdawg said . . .jdawg - thanks for post that helped answer POd's questions for me. Look, I'm not saying the competition wasn't fixed. It probably was. But it was fized to show that Rex still had the same downside.
Laugh if you want about my comment on long passes - but preseason is to work on things that are deficiencies as well as strengths. In this case, they knew Rex coudl handle the long pass better than Orton. No need to test that out.
And I will always say that Rex killed all his chances - however slim they may be - by running backwards (as he has done more than a few times) when a sack was inevitible. That has to be the dumbest looking thing he does - and after all these years in the league it's inexcusible.
We do not have a good QB on this team. And it's beyond dumb to sit here and defend either one of them.
August 20, 2008
#45 AK said . . .I don't think Kyle needs defending.
Even though he was the only person I've ever seen translate "3 yards and a cloud of dust" into the passing game, I'm still open to the idea that we haven't seen his best yet.
In his rookie year he was made the starter after the 3rd preseason game.
Last year he started after being the 3rd back up all year.
This year he will have gotten plenty of reps with the 1st team (if you really want to call them that).
Make no mistake. What we've got here is the ingredients for a German lager (6-8 weeks to brew) instead of an American pale ale (2-3 weeks to brew).
Schlitz y'all!
August 20, 2008
#46 jeff said . . .#35 - Jeff, good point.
What's the line on people calling for Hanie to play in the season?
August 20, 2008
#47 Pissed Off said . . .yeah AK, you really made me think about it. but has anybody really made an argument FOR orton? i think people, includingme, just believe he gives us a best chance to win through reduction of errors.
August 20, 2008
#48 Bill said . . .I noticed jdawgs comment on here a while ago but didnt resond (#41) because I thought it was completely ridiculous and didnt deserve a response but it seems as though Bill buys it.....
Kyle would have thrown 3 INTs, two for a pick-6, 2 sacks, and one lost fumble. Thats what would have happened, now doesnt Rex's circumstances sound a lot better. I fight stupidity with stupidity. No one knows what would have happened.
And if Kyle is so good why was he the #3 last year, and wasnt he the #3 in 06 as well?
Polygon, I do wonder if he knew and if the team knows? Its sounds like he did based on that soundbyte played during the Hub Arkush interview I posted on the last thread which no one probably bothered to listen to (cuz their so sure in their opinions). He said they should know since they've both been around for a few years.
August 20, 2008
#49 Al In WI said . . .PO - I haven't listened to the Hub clip because it's blocked here at work. But from what you say - and Rex's comments - it does seem likely he knew or realized quickly that the decision had been made before the first preseason game.
Doesn't matter. I think this GM and coach will be gone in a year or two. Then rebuilding starts again.
August 20, 2008
#50 Pissed Off said . . .It is true no one does make the arguement for Orton. He is a non-entity. Those that support him usually tend be 'anybody but Grossman' people.
I think part of the reason is too that there is nothing to backup a pro-Orton arguement. He has one career stat that is better than Grossman's; interception percentage. Otherwise every other statistical measure though not always great, favors Grossman.
The other factor as mentioned time and again by Po'd, and I is that he didn't do anything to earn/win the job either. He didn't even produce a touchdown in the preseason thus far.
For a number or reasons, Grossman remains a deeply polarizing figure amongst fans.
And for the record there simply is no disputing the fact that the coaching staff set this up for Orton. Not only did Hub Arkush report it, it's been referenced and confirmed by several extremely reliable sources. Here is a list of reporters that I've seen: Hub Arkush, David Haugh, Mike Mulligan, Dan Pompi, Mike Murphy, Dan Biernstine, Chris Mortenson, and John Crist. I'm sorry for murdering some of those names but you know who I'm talking about.
It's not excuse making or a conspiracy from random fans. It's backed up by credible sources, and on the Score in the interview Hub first raised it Dan Bierstine revealed he had a seperate source who confirmed the same thing.August 20, 2008
#51 jdawg said . . .Roy has a website:
Here is his latest video and an interesting take on the QB decision:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgMrnY03Wbg
It further proves my points, farce of a competition and Rex not ever allowed to win the job. He makes an interesting point in the begining of the video that I never thought of, watch and listen, its about Rex not peaking yet and why they signed him and covered up the fake competition. Keep an eye out too in the video for where his mom walks by behind him.
He thinks the fans will clamor for Rex at some point this year after watching Orton for an elongated period of time with a struggling offense and those were the circumstances that Lovie wants Rex getting back in the game at. Not where he starts the year hearing boos.
Bill, I think you see the light and I can assure you that if you listened to the clip you'd be more convinced. Also I totally agree about jettisoning this staff and rebuilding. And remember, thats not a bad thing in the NFL, in the not for long league "rebuilding" as its called sometimes doesnt even take one full year. There have been plenty of teams in the so called rebuilding process that have made some hay. Thats the beauty of the NFL, if you dont like how a team is doing, wait half a season.
August 20, 2008
#52 Phil from SATX said . . .well well well
as Divine used to say, "Flame On!"
Look, all I'm saying is that in those series Rex had against Seattle he:
threw a pick
was sacked twice
had an intentional grounding call
threw off his back foot
never made it past the 50But, setting that aside, he was awesome!
August 20, 2008
#53 jeff said . . .I missed you jdawg! Welcome back! Mikeb, that is a seriously interesting theory of yours. Arguing against it is the fact we've never heard a whiff of that, but it would explain a lot of things, and it's simple. Maybe Larry Mayer would have an opinion on that! (just kidding)
Hmmm... I wonder how many Polishes WERE eaten at Soldier Field? My entrant for a Larry question is:
Who were the best Bears with a jersey number one removed from the greats - like #33 (34-1), #53, #22, etc. Now THAT would be REALLY INTERESTING.
His writing makes me think he may be an escapee from the editorial board of Pravda back in the 70's.
Once again, Shady hit it on the head previously. I'm going to be your publicist, and quote you again -
Courtesy of SHADY
You know how they made the decision? They probably figured people would rather see Kyle suffer than watch it happen to Grossman again. There is just something so terrible about watching Rex fall apart under duress that fans just couldn't take it anymore. I mean, you could use the skunk comparison about Hester on Grossman. How many times do you need to get sprayed before you figure it out?
(Shady I didn't intend to do this but I remembered something someone had said that resonated with me and surprise - it turned out to be you again!)
Since Rex was showing that he was fully capable of doing the same embarrassing things he did before, I think the coaches just had enough. Plus I do believe that Kyle significantly outplayed him in that game, even with few plays/sample points. We all stressed how important that game was to be in the QB derby, and when the pressure was on, Rex couldn't handle it. BearTransplant also had a lot of great points on that game - nice posting lately from him. On the other hand, Kyle looked good, and not inaccurate, as I would have guessed he would be.
We'll never end up agreeing on whether or not there was a true derby, but I believe there was and Rex somehow took another step back this season - I guarantee you he looked better after his benching than he does right now. Why is that? I don't know, but the inconsistency was too much for his bosses. They will choose consist mediocrity over inconsistent great/horrible, and they should. Maybe Kyle will give us more than mediocrity - it could happen!
I worry, though, that good fans on here are really pissed about this and will therefore not support Kyle even if they give lip service (keyboard service) saying that they will. Hate Lovie, that's okay, hate RT, (I do!), hate Angelo if you must, but spare 'ole Neckbeard. It ain't his fault, and for right now, he's our QB.
Onward and upward!
August 20, 2008
#54 jdawg said . . .i'm not an anybody but grossman person. i'm an orton instead of grossman person.
August 20, 2008
#55 Shady said . . .yeah -- I was a Grossman apologist for quite some time, but the scales finally fell off my eyes. He's a QB in the Mark Rypien mold -- give him an incredible O-line and he'll light it up. Give him a regular line -- not so much. Give him a sub par line and it a classic Keystone Kops short.
August 20, 2008
#56 Jimbo said . . .Thanks Phil, maybe I can get my own column on here one of these days - whaddaya say jeff?
And where are these tee's? On second thought, maybe we could make up dabearsblog jerseys instead, possibly with our names on the back and choice of number. Wouldn't that be bad ass?
August 20, 2008
#57 jonathan said . . .PO'ed. That video by Roy was intresting. Its a little hard for me to believe Roy has the big inside scoop, but his opinions could basically be summed up as:
Fans hate rex. O-line sucks, thus rex (or anyone) will struggle. Shit rolls down hill and the coaches are at the bottom... so shut everyone up and start orton (read: start anyone but rex).
I dont know if i buy that. I will say this, everyone here seems to agree that our success, whether you like rex or orton (or someone else), depends on this O-line playing respectable.
So my question is, what, within the power of this organization, can we do to fix the line??? or do we just have to wait until week 8 when williams comes back and hope he can step in and make a immediate difference?
August 21, 2008
#58 Rancid said . . .jeff -- you never explained the tangential relationship with the Bears.
and i'm truly, sincerely sorry that your father was a yankees fan. that's a damn shame.
August 21, 2008
#59 Mad Dog said . . .I think Rex squandered a whole hell of a lot more chances than a lot of guys ever get. He's been in the league 6 years! SIX! Try to find another QB, who's not a solid, trustworthy starter that has been on the same team for 6 years. I can't think of one. Teams give up on them sooner than that, because of injuries or inconsistency. They go somewhere else and try again. If it works, good, if not they become journeymen and hop teams until they're too old to contribute, but no one, NO ONE gets to perform inconsistently on the same team for 6 years. Rex had his shot. For now, he loses the starting job. If KO sucks or gets killed, he gets another shot.
Now before I get flamed to death, I'll also state that I think KO needs to step up his game to level we have NEVER seen in order for him to succeed at this spot. So I'm no KO lover either. I'm just saying that I think it is in no way a credible argument that Rex has been mistreated by this organization.
So am I just a negative whiner who's just going to trash both guys all day? No. In fact the opposite is true. I will cheer for KO. All season if he makes it that long. If he goes down to injury or incompetence I will cheer for Rex. Last time I checked I'm a fan of the Chicago Bears, and I can be a fan of the Chicago Bears without getting a tattoo that says either KO or Sexy Rexy. If it was all about the QB there wouldn't be a single Bears fan in the world. Come together folks, real games are almost here and we'd better have better things to blog about besides how much we miss Rex and TJ!
August 21, 2008
#60 Phil from SATX said . . .Grossman bad. Orton bad. Caleb Hanie will start before the end of the season, by default.
August 21, 2008
Hear hear Rancid. Nuff said. Is there a game tonight?
August 21, 2008
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