Don't Turner Away
The Sun-Times cites a couple sources linking Ron Turner to the vacant offensive coordinator position under the worst coach in the history of organized sports at Pittsburgh. I know my opinion on Ron Turner isn't popular 'round these parts but losing him at this juncture could prove to be catastrophic. Aside from his play-calling in short-yardage scenarios this season, Turner oversaw an offense that was a remarkable improvement over a year ago. We've got a young quarterback, running back, star tight end and wide receiver. Now is not the time to change the scheme.
Can We Stop With These Kinds of Articles?
Mike Imrem in the Daily Herald writes arguably the most boring sports piece of the decade in his attempt to define Lovie Smith's definition of the word "close" (as in close the door not "I'm close, I'm close!"). You know what? The Bears didn't win enough games to get into the playoffs. I don't care how close the coach thinks they were. Win more games and we don't have to talk about it.
Absolutely No Chance...
That I watch even a snap of the Pro Bowl.
#2 do said . . .First...
February 8, 2009
#3 Shady said . . .If we fire RT there is a shot we could bring in Gruden, which would be a pretty good idea in my opinion?
February 8, 2009
#4 Al In WI said . . .That's a hell of a beard.
February 8, 2009
#5 Ron Turner said . . .Turner has been here for 4 years and this team is argueably just as bad on offense now as it was then. It would be a rare stroke of luck for him to leave this team, even now. There are still quality offensive coordinators around the league that could be talked into jumping in here. Including Mike Martz or Jim Fassel just to throw out a couple of names. I would consider both to be upgrades over Turner.
I couldn't disagree more about the status of this offense. Right now we have a solid young running back, and two very good tight ends that can be counted on. The offensive line had basically a good year but looks patchwork going forward with Kruetz and Tait getting older. We don't yet know what we have Williams, Beekman is okay but still unproven. Garza is solid but not a pro bowler and I would say the same for St. Clair. We don't have an NFL reciever on the roster right now with Hester being the best of a very bad bunch. And worse yet we can't use him properly because we have a quarterback who is unable to throw the ball down the field. As in historically bad at it, only completeing one pass that went 30 yards in the air all season and that came in the last game of the year.
I don't see any reason why keeping Turner in the fold is important. A new system may be what's needed to get more out of the players currently on the roster, and hopefully identify better talent moving forward.February 8, 2009
#6 Rancid said . . .I blow big fat donkey dick! In my spare time I like to molest 8 year old Cambodian boys.
P.S...I suck at life
February 8, 2009
#7 The Ghost of Halas said . . .If this ray of hope that could be the end of the RT ers comes true I will host the party of the century. Be gone, jackass! I will personally pay for the Uhaul and plane ticket!
February 8, 2009
#8 Willie from Chicago said . . .You're not missing anything, Jeff. This Pro Bowl is boring even by Pro Bowl standards.
But it's the last football game I'll get to see until August.
do-Jon Gruden is a Super Bowl winning head coach. I don't know that he'll downgrade himself to Offensive Coordinator, even if Turner leaves. And as far as that goes, I have to agree with Al. If Turner stays, not a whole lot will change, and I'm okay with that on offense (more talent is required). If Turner goes, then it may be catastrophic, but I doubt it. He can stay or go, I'm tired of caring.
February 8, 2009
#9 do said . . .Say what you want about the pro Bowl but its the last football action we will be watching till the pre season So I watched the first half.
Baseball season is 57 Days away! HURRY UP!
Bear Down in 09!
go cubs!February 9, 2009
#10 BearDown1982 said . . .halas, he did that with Dungy's team we all know that, the Bucs were on the verge of a superbowl anyway. Have you looked at his career wins and losses? Here they are along with a few other head coaches that decided to be coordinators.
Gruden 95-81 .539
Martz 56-36 .609
Fassel 60-56 .517
Lebeau 12-36
Nolan 18-37
Gailey 18-14 .563
Mornhinweg 5-27
Linehan 11-25
Capers 49-81
Mularkey 14-18
Williams 17-31This is the list of current coordinators that used to be head coaches (well the ones i found). As you can see most of them have pretty bad records as head coaches, but there are a couple of them that had better records than Gruden.
And I am discounting the super bowl because it was in his first season with a team that was not really his (they allowed 21 or more point one time all season). That sounds to me like a team led by Monte Kiffin and not John Gruden.
I am not saying that Gruden shouldnt be a head coach somewhere, I just dont think that it will be this year so he COULD be our O-coordinator.
I mean next season where is he going to go? Who might need a coach? These are teams that might have openings to fill.
Bills, Bengals, Vikings and Packers maybe. Thats all that I can think of. There were so many coaching changes that I think next year a lot of places will be set. So if there are 4 openings you give one to Shanahan, one to Rivera (he will be a head coach after next season), there is always a young coordinator that everyone wants to get their hands on, and Cowher will be on the top of everyones list. I really dont see a place for John Gruden.
February 9, 2009
#11 The Ghost of Halas said . . .Turner...I'm not the biggest fan in the world. But...I also understand he hasn't had all that much to work with. The full back handoff makes me want to puke though. It really does.
Pro Bowl...I think it should just not be played. Name all star teams and leave it at that. Just doesn't work the same in a physical sport like football.
February 9, 2009
#12 The Ghost of Halas said . . .do-I'm just saying, he views himself as a Super Bowl winning head coach. And he deserves it...you know I get a little irked when people say that the previous coach is why that team won the Super Bowl...like how you say Gruden took Dungy's team to the Super Bowl.
Tony Dungy could not win in the playoffs so the Bucs FIRED him and HIRED Jon Gruden to get it done...and what do ya know, the very next year Tampa Bay wins the Big Game. NOBODY is saying that Mike Tomlin took Bill Cowher's team to the Super Bowl last weekend, do they? If they wanted to they could make that argument, I mean, Big Ben, Holmes, Polamalu, Parker, Ward, Miller, among others were all gathered under Cowher's leadership. So, I ask again, is this Bill Cowher's fucking team or is it Mike Tomlin's??? I think it's Mike Tomlin's. And I think that the 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers were Jon fucking Gruden's.
No, do, Jon Gruden can and will bill himself as a Super Bowl-winning head coach.
February 9, 2009
#13 zisk said . . .And in addendum to your list of current coordinators who were head coaches...NONE of them won a Super Bowl.
Mike Martz came close (with Dick Vermeil's team, I'm sure you would say) but he lost the Big Game.
February 9, 2009
#14 do said . . .I didnt watch it but according to nfl.com briggs had 6 tackles. Everyone else had 4 or less. I'm realy glad hes still on our team.
February 9, 2009
#15 CA BEAR FAN said . . .Hey Halas how many years has Tomlin been with the Steelers? 2? yeah thats what I though, that is a bit different than ONE.
What did Tomlin do in his first season as a head coach? 10-6 and a first round loss?
If you would have been involved in competitive football you might realize that it takes a while to put in your scheme and coach the players the way you want them to be coached.
AND I never said that Gruden was a bad coach, I simply stated that his super bowl win will be discounted when he interviews for jobs in the future because he did it with a group of men and a system that was not his own. Im sure the only football you know is the 5 on 5 backyard football variety that involves you and 9 other guys running around playing grab ass, unfortunately for you the NFL is not like that, they run plays and have a variety of formations not just, "hey scooter you run deep and I'll hit you."
I do not know how many other coaches have won a superbowl in their first season as head coach but the one that I do know is George Seifert. You think he won a superbowl with HIS team or was it Bill Walsh's?
February 9, 2009
#16 CA BEAR FAN said . . .Turner gone?? Yea right...wake me up from this dream..cause it wont come true....I give Turner a little bit of credit for not having nothing to work with these past four years but I give him an "F" for not pursuing anybody or not developing any offensive player that comes out of the draft.....He runs the Offense and I say if he hasnt done shit these past years, I would think it is time for a change, But Angelo and Lovie got their heads so far up eachothers asses....its Like Lovie and Angelo dont set high enough standards for anybody on the staff or the team....They expect mediocracy and thats what we get Ladies and Gents...A medicre football Team...I honestly dont expect anything great from our Bears while they are being coached by these fucking retards.....NICE POST JEFF> THIS IS WHAT IM FUCKING TALKING ABOUT!!!!!
February 9, 2009
#17 The Ghost of Halas said . . .Also, this is what confuses me....Like what makes lovie smith so great where he can be a Head Coach???he dont know shit about offense and he doesnt even call the defense....what fucking coach does this??? I always see a head coach running the offense in the game or the defense...but Lovie stands their and stares at the scorebored like a fucking idiot....god i cant stand that shit!!!!!!! Id say if he cant call the offense or the defense then why the fuck is he our COACH???? also, if Bob Babich cant run the defense then why the fuck is he the Dfensive Coordinator???? AND if Ron Turner cant put together a explosive offense or let alone put together a decent playbook then why the fuck is he our Ofensive Coordinator??? I fucking hate these coaches!!! DAMMIT! these guys gotta go .....pardon my language
February 9, 2009
#18 animal said . . .do- I respectfully disagree with you. But I love you despite our disagreement because you provide entertainment for me during this offseason.
My wife laughed out loud when she read about your skepticism concerning whether or not I had "been involved in competative football," as you say. The reason I am so touchy on this issue is because I was member of a team that went through this very same debate several years ago...winning a championship with a brand new coach.
Look, my friend, here's my point. You are quite correct that a coaching scheme takes many months and years to really sink in to a team, I wholly agree with that. But if you had ever participated in competative football, you too would realize that there is more to coaching than the "scheme" he brings. There is play-calling. There is organization. There is inspiring your players. There is coaching your team to victory after victory and hopefully to that one final victory at the end of the season. So yes, people like you can sit on your tower and throw rocks down on people like me...saying that the teams we coached only won a championship because of the previous coach. I'm going to tell you to ask players on the 1989 49ers or the 2002 Buccaneers who coached that team to a Super Bowl victory. They will no doubt say George Seifert and Jon Gruden, respectively, though also paying respects to Bill Walsh and Tony Dungy.
And hey, people like George Seifert and others (such as myself) get so tired of this debate over their coaching abilities that they just feel compelled to go out there and kick ass while winning another championship.
It's just such a HORRIBLE way to think and look at football, friend.
But at least you and I are fellow Bears fans and though we disagree we each cherish the purity of one another's love for the sport and for our team.
February 9, 2009
#19 Da bears 1977 said . . .booooooooring
is it draft time yet??we beat ourselves up over WHO we will draft. I want to discuss what POSITION we will draft in the first. Last year, we narrowed it down to tackle and argued about 3 guys we really knew nothing about. Point is, I think the majority opinion was that we would draft tackle and we did.
(Is this selective memory? Didn't we talk a lot about drafting a qb?)So, what POSITION will the Bears draft in the first round this year?
I can't see O-line this year. We won't take a QB or RB- no way. WR is possible, I just don't think JA will pull the trigger. Too much money in LB right now.
I have it narrowed down to DE or DB. We need a real pass rusher badly and our DBs struggled mightily. This is a team that prides itself on winning with D, and went mostly D picks two years ago when we were dreaming of offensive stars.
The last 3 first rounders were a RB, TE and OT. Before that we solidified the D with Tommie Harris. JA will go D again this year.
Ive made my case. Anyone got a different theory?
February 9, 2009
#20 Dr J said . . ."3 guys we knew nothing about", after Clady(franchise LT for the next 10 years) was gone is was between the bitch and the beast (Otah), and we chose the finesse BITCH CW, who signed his multi-million dollar deal one day, and the next day announced his injury that he knew he had even before the draft.
I think the 4 best OTs will be gone at 18 and Maclin will likely be gone also, Bey and Nicks may be a reach at 18 also, let's not draft a DB that high though, I like the mix of corners we have now but we could add one in the 3rd or 4th rd, we need a safety but there is not one worthy of the 18th pick this year.
February 9, 2009
#21 shonbear said . . .I totally agree with CA Bear Fan post # 16 Lovie and those guys got to go. I cant stand the way Lovie just stares blank face on the sideline
February 9, 2009
#22 KentuckyBearsFan said . . .Animal,
I know you want to talk draft, I still think it's too early, still need to see what will happen in free agency first. Now about the Gruden debate, why has it been ignored that the tea, Gruden coached was robbed of a SB appearance on the Tom Brady fumble and then went the following year when he didn't coach them anymore, then the team he took over also goes to the SB. Something needs to be said about that. In addition, Tony, as great as he supposedly is would Never and again I say Never have won a SB if it had not been for Manning.
Losing Turner could only be good, except for the fact that Lovie doesn't know how to pick a decent replacement and Jerry would be too busy trying to arrive at consensus to be a Leader and make the right call on his own.
February 9, 2009
#23 Urlacher FTW said . . ."GIVE IT TO THE FULLBACK ON 4th DOWN!
I DON'T CARE IF IT FAILED THE LAST 4 TIMES, IT WORKED THAT ONE TIME!"- Ron Turner
February 9, 2009
#24 Urlacher FTW said . . .With the coaching staff there are so many differences in the way things are done within each organization that it is hard to say how much impact a paticular head coach or coordinator has on a team as a whole. Some teams have definate GM who hires talent, HC making decisions of who is actually on the field and finalizing plays called, OC making up plays and recommending perrsonnel to both hire and play, and DC doing the same on D. But I think for the most part its some random dispersement of those across the board. So some coaches like Bellichick make more decisions like a GM, are HC and does a little bit of OC and DC. So to me unless a coach comes in house is cleaned around him by the owner or GM it really isn't going to be "his" team for a couple of seasons unless it is a guy like Bellichick.
That being said I kind of agree with Jeff here. As much as I dispise RTs decisions in short yardage and hate most personnel decisions he has been any part of lately ( I am assuming he had at least something to do with trading away TJ and not playing Bradley) I think that we are already going to be changing Olines and changing our WR corps, changing our OC would mean installing a whole new offense as well and usually that doesn't bode well for young QBs. Plus who is out there? MartFebruary 9, 2009
#25 NGB said . . .With the coaching staff there are so many differences in the way things are done within each organization that it is hard to say how much impact a paticular head coach or coordinator has on a team as a whole. Some teams have definate GM who hires talent, HC making decisions of who is actually on the field and finalizing plays called, OC making up plays and recommending perrsonnel to both hire and play, and DC doing the same on D. But I think for the most part its some random dispersement of those across the board. So some coaches like Bellichick make more decisions like a GM, are HC and does a little bit of OC and DC. So to me unless a coach comes in house is cleaned around him by the owner or GM it really isn't going to be "his" team for a couple of seasons unless it is a guy like Bellichick.
That being said I kind of agree with Jeff here. As much as I dispise RTs decisions in short yardage and hate most personnel decisions he has been any part of lately ( I am assuming he had at least something to do with trading away TJ and not playing Bradley) I think that we are already going to be changing Olines and changing our WR corps, changing our OC would mean installing a whole new offense as well and usually that doesn't bode well for young QBs. Plus who is out there? Martz.. seriously what has he done for 4 or 5 years except lose football games? Fassel? I don't even recognize the name. I mean we did have a winning record, we did barely miss the playoffs, it's not like we were the lions, chiefs, or browns.
I mean look at the browns, what's their answer? We want to spend a lot on a QB, they spent a lot on 2! We want a big play WR, they have one of the best. We want a dominate defenseive tackle, they have Big Baby.
We aren't so far away from a good team that we need to scrap everything and start over, defensively, coaching-wise we almost did that. Offensively I really believe we have more lack of talent on the field than we have in coaches. That needs to be addressed first. If RT can't succeed then, fire him.February 9, 2009
#26 Murph said . . .This is a Bears team without a real WR. The best we have is Hester and it took him over a year to get familiar with the current offensive scheme. Remember he used to line up in the wrong spot and have to be physically moved to line up correctly.
If we change OC now how long will it take Hester to feel comfortable again?February 9, 2009
#27 do said . . .I think Gruden will take the year off, and if Charlie Weiss fails at ND, Gruden will take what he always said was his dream job. Turner will never leave the NFL to take a college job unless its another head coaching job, and after his run at Illinois I dont see that any time soon. I surely did not see that Tampa team as Dungys, in fact I think the lack of emotion and passion is whats kept the Colts from being in more super bowls. It was Grudens passion that drove that team to the Super Bowl.
One more thing.......great posts Ghost!!!February 9, 2009
#28 Al In WI said . . .halas- glad we can agree to disagree respectfully. oh and the skeptisism about you football background was simply retoric, as intelligently as your posts are i was sure you had some sort of football knowledge.
The only thing that I hate about RT is the fact that he goes into conservative mode when we go up by a couple of TD's. I think if he would just go for the kill instead of changing the playcalling completely we would have won at least 3 more games last year.
February 9, 2009
#29 Worm0922 said . . .How is that Turner and Orton are always given passes for "not having much to work with?" While at the same time several of you are the same people who killed Rex Grossman over the years with the same supporting cast. I will never get that.
Besides part of why we don't have much to work with is that Turner has been involved in picking the players for 4 years now! And he has either failed at identifying talent, or failed to develope it. Either way he has failed.
Just look at the number of wide recievers who have came through here who supposedly couldn't play. And now have moved on to other teams and played just fine or above average. Bradley, Wade, Gage, and Moose just to name a few. All those players never came close to that level of production here, that then have on their new teams.
February 9, 2009
#30 z said . . .What is the thought about Canseco being right about A-Rod? Who else could be on the list? Sry, but the preseason is too far away. Maybe Your boy Roy will have some video from the mini camp in March.
February 9, 2009
#31 Z said . . .Good point Al #28
What is wrong with having an Offensive Coordinator that can game plan, identify and develop talent and, wait for it, adjust in-game to an opponent. I know Bears fans this sounds like a pipe dream and who would dare suggest such a thing but I was thinking that since that is the job description that maybe we could get someone that can actually meet those lofty standards. I guess when the top of the organization is trying to not be held accountable then they have no motivation to point out how incompetent some of their hires and choices really are.
Playoffs in 2009-2010 or Cowher in 2010-2011. We don't trust you Lovie. Put up or ship off!
I want to see the rest of the list for the positive MLB tests for 2003. And who is Dana Stubblefield snitching on from 8 years ago? I am sure all sports were enabling and probably even supporting performance enhancers back then to make an extra buck. MLB just lost its grib on the dug out code of silence faster then the other sports.
February 10, 2009
#32 John said . . .And any organization that loses its grib is in big trouble.
Grib, not to be confused with their grub (food)
or their grip which is what I was trying to write.
And Bulls, if you have any chance to trade for Amere Stoudamire, seriously, don't think, don't ponder, don't play hard ball or hard to get. Get it done. Tonight if possible.
February 10, 2009
#33 Rancid said . . .I'm glad you didnt see the pro bowl because all you would see were three vikings on the NFC defensive line, a vikings corner, a vikings all-pro guard, and the BEST RB in the national football league. How many bears made the pro bowl? LOL
February 10, 2009
#34 John said . . .All those stars got you a record one game better than Da Bears and 1st round playoff humiliation. Whoopty shit.
February 10, 2009
#35 Urlacher FTW said . . .Hi I'm John.
I'm a flaming assclown.
My favorite hobbies are giving guys blowjobs for crack and trying to suck my own cock.
I'll toss your salad for 5 $$.
I love the viqueens because I'm compensating for something
The viqueens sell my favorite kind of anal beads. The one with horns.Im sorry for all the bullshit Ive said to you guys. Da Bears are the greatest team in football.
February 10, 2009
#36 The Ghost of Halas said . . .John - there were more Vikings in the pro-bowl than there were ticket sales for your playoff game.
And there were as many Bears in the pro-bowl as there were games in your playoff season.Al - saying Rex had the same talent around him as Kyle is pushing it a great deal. Rex had 2 linemen go to the pro bowl and Berrian or Muhammed would be the best WR here and Rex had both. Look Rex is no longer a Chicago Bear, at this point why are you even bringing him up. But your really in your own world if you think our Oline and WR talent was equal in 06 as in 08.
February 10, 2009
#37 do said . . .Game Ball...
Urlacher FTW
Because that was the greatest John comeback yet.
February 10, 2009
#38 CA BEAR FAN said . . .Urlacher I was just about to say that. The only thing Orton has better than Rex are probably TE (Greg has gotten better) and possible RB. Although RB might be a stretch becuase TJ was pretty good during the run at the SB. Rex had a better D, better receivers, a better line.
I wish we coulda seen Kyle in there during the super bowl season.
February 10, 2009
#39 Worm0922 said . . .Kyle would of done alot better in managing the game clock in the super bowl....not just throw the ball deep and hope somebody would catch it...
February 10, 2009
#40 JWilson said . . .CA are you really sure about that? Griese was the back up that year. They picked him up due the Kyle's 2005. Without Griese, as Kyle said, Kyle would still be throwing to the ground or fastballs. To be honest with you, I wish that Griese would retire and could replace Pep. Then we would at least have someone who would be able to develop a QB.
February 10, 2009
#41 Willie from Chicago said . . .Rex this, TJ that. We all know the history. It's ancient history. Let's move on.
John, you are a huge douche! If the Vikings wouldn't use roids they wouldn't have any all-pro players.
Lions released CB Leigh Bodden. He's out $8.6 million bonus. I bet he's pissed! Real pissed! Bears might want to look in his direction.
February 10, 2009
#42 Al In WI said . . .John, AP sucks, he isnt that good of a HB, he fumbles all of the fucking time. The Queens are going 5-11 next year. Eat shit John.
BEAR DOWN in 09
February 10, 2009
#43 Urlacher FTW said . . .Urlacher fwf: Rex and Kyle have played the same amount of games and have the exact same quarterback rating; 71. Not great. The differences are that Rex threw a lot more touchdowns and Orton threw a lot fewer interceptions. But again they ended up on the same level.
My point was how you treat the two to players. Not that Rex should be back, because he shouldn't. Though I will add that your lame arguement seems to ignore that the supporting casts of '06 was the same group that Orton had in 2005 and was terrible with.
So Orton and Grossman have gotten the same results in Turner's system. Isn't that interesting. Oh and Griese a veteran got basically the same results. What if it isn't the qb's? Could it be the system being run??February 10, 2009
#44 Ron Turner said . . .Al the are so many inaccuracies in that statement I hardly know where to start.
1.) Rex played 36 games Kyle only 33 so that's not the same.
2.) Rex's rating is 70.2 Kyles is 71.1 which is close but not the same and certainly not exactly the same. There are also huge differences in how they attained those ratings, Kyle has gotten better in every category every year, Rex had one great month in Sept 06 and has progressively gone downhill ever since getting worse every year and sustaining injury after injury.
3.) Rex threw 3 more TDs than KO in 3 more games, so if KO can throw 1 TD a game in the next 3 games, which he averaged better than this season without a WR then no Rex doesnt throw more TDs just more picks.
4.) No they aren't the same level KO has shown improvement and his arrow is pointing up, Rex was a flash in the pan burnout who is done.
5.) An argument isn't lame simply because you can't refute it... make a point. And of course KO did badly in 05, he was the emergency QB who was given a ripped up playbook and no confidence from the team.But yes it could be the system, RT's system may just suck or it could be the fact that our Olineman suck, or the fact that we don't have a WR who can catch or stay healthy long enough to develop timing, or the fact that we can't keep the same QB under center for 2 seasons in a row. No QB is going to succeed the way we go through them. I mean if we started Peyton 3 games, bench, play Brees for 3 games bench, and then let Rivers go for 4 games bench; I mean it doesn't matter the talent a guy has if he isn't allowed to mesh with his guys and his system. That's why I think releasing RT now would be bad, why not see what happens in 09 with Orton improving and showing promise and knowing RTs system, improve his protection and his receivers and see if RT's system does just suck.
February 10, 2009
#45 Phil from SATX said . . .Hey John...can I shit on your chest? I'm so sexually frustrated right now!
February 10, 2009
#46 WTF are they thinking said . . .Any chance we have to get rid of Ron Turner needs to be jumped on like a wolverine on an injured vole. Swallow it all in one bite. Don't give RT one chance to wriggle out, even if he drops his tail.
February 10, 2009
#47 Rancid said . . .#43 Well said!! Just wanted to add that that in KO's rookie season Moose made Rasheed Davis look like a Pro Bowler. I think I remember him getting hit in the face or chest four times and dropping them in the enzone. Which he then blamed on KO. Thank GOD they got rid of that BUM. It was even better to see him choke in the playoffs!!!
It's discraceful how the NFL let's these guys in the Pro Bowl the same season they get caught(vikings). With NFL rules every team should be on them. You only get suspended four games if you get caught. If you have a judge that likes your team it might not even happen.
Remember when Shawn Merrion was on Inside the NFL? He did a whole segment how Pilates greatly improved his offseason conditioning and weightloss. What a pathetic loser he must have felt like.February 10, 2009
#48 Phil from SATX said . . .I really have nothing new other to say than that RT is an asshole and I fully support any means or method of removing our logo from his apparel. Let him go. There must be better.
February 10, 2009
#49 CA BEAR FAN said . . .Re: Draft, I'm starting to believe in the concept of a stud DE with the first pick. I like Animal's logic, even if I would prefer overpicking for an interior Olineman with that pick. I don't think the Bears will do it - and it HAS been a long time since we used it on Harris. I buy that THEY buy that the coaching changes on D will help the line, but the fact remains that our existing gr0up never ever got to the QB (at least it seemed that way).
Since there seems to be enough to work with on the interior, and it also seems like Wale has just dropped off the cliff (coaching or no coaching), a stud to pair with the waning years of Alex Brown seems to make sense.
I've been gone for a while, here's a few things that are driving me crazy right now.
1) Rex vs. Kyle? 2006 called, they want their QB debate back. ENOUGH!!!! (Mentioning TJ is even worse).
2) Can we stop with the nonsense that the Oline was good enough, that we just need more "depth"? THE O LINE COULD NOT RUN BLOCK TO GET SIX INCHES. If this sad fact does not get addressed, we're screwed next year - we will still not have a good enough running game, Matt Forte or no Matt Forte.
The fact is, both lines have to get better next year. I would argue that the improvement the D line needs is less given the strength of personnel - maybe different coaching really can change them - but I still think one more really good guy is needed. But on offensive line, yes, they have a pretty long way to go - they need to move from the worst run blockers to at least AVERAGE. That's a big move.
3) How about enough with the Tillman bashing? Sure he had a crappy year, but this guy has been a super stud for us in the very recent past. I am willing to put this year's decline to injury, bad scheme and terrible pass rush. Do you forget all the great things Tillman has done? He's not old.
4) I think it was Rancid who came up with the cliff theory related to the center - or maybe it was MikeB. But Rancid, if it was you, please don't water it down by suggesting that Kreutz will still be good for several seasons. He's NOT good anymore. He just plain sucks. The sooner they cop to that the sooner we can move on. I know the guy calls out protections - I'm sure that's worth something - but not enough. Olin Kreutz, Heart and Soul of the Offense, can no longer play at an elite level, and he's just plain killing us.
That's all I got.
February 10, 2009
#50 Phil from SATX said . . .I wouldnt say Olin Kruetz is done for....He is the best blocker we got...and look who he had next to him for a line....NOBODIES! Offensive lines move as a Unit...They all have to create protection or generate push in order for the guy next to them to be successfull....He had nobody next to him to support him....Olines start at center, Kruetz is one of the best in the game.who would you suggest replace Kruetz????..he needs guards to support him.....and the guards need tackles to support them...i agree that the biggest issue is our lines Dline and Oline...
February 11, 2009
#51 Rancid said . . .Ca, I respect you, but Olin K is simply NOT a good blocker anymore. I suggest Beekman or FA or draft pick. Those FB dives that never worked? That was Kreutz.
February 11, 2009
#52 cbears said . . .Phil - I love the Kreutz thing. It took me like 2 hours to research all that out while I was supposed to be working. It is not fully my opinion that Kreutz has a couple of years left. I think he might be decent at this point. If you want a decent center he might have a year or two left. I don't a decent center, I want domination in the run game. I want Mack or Unger with the first rounder to replace him (unless we can trade our pick for a #1 WR). I would be willing to let them battle it out in camp. If Kreutz can beat out a stud rookie and get one more year out of the tank so be it, if not, it was a great ten years. I just want to make sure we get a guy who will last another 10 years.
Here's a link to the previous post about Olin. posts 23-24 are the data on the ages of centers in the league. The bottom line is that Olin was one of 6 31 year old centers last year. There were only 4 older than that still starting. I think they hit a serious wall, and I think we've seen that with Olin. Keep him on the team, but draft his future replacement THIS YEAR and let them go at it in camp.
http://www.dabearsblog.com/2009/01/three_things_not_to_do_offense.php
February 11, 2009
#53 cbears said . . .A FB dive requries a double team from the guard and center. If olin and beakmean couldnt handle one DT and a linebacker, beakmean, who everyone says is too small, sure wont handle a DT and a linebacker with a rookie guard.
February 11, 2009
#54 CAK said . . .beekman* it was a long day, which means spelling errors.
February 11, 2009
#55 animal said . . .#52, that is very true.
February 11, 2009
#56 CA BEAR FAN said . . .are we still arguing Rex-Kyle?
Un-fucking-believable.
Do you fucking retards remember all the fumbles? the INTs? the panic?
Kyle is much more solid, stable and still has an upside. Living with Rex is just waiting for the next big mistake.
And, the talent was a lot better in 06.
Unreal.February 11, 2009
#57 Rancid said . . .Cbears- thats my point exactly! just cause the FB dive didnt work doesnt mean it was kruetz fault....on some of those FB dives or HB dives Garza was getting blown out and some Lbs were swinging around the tackles and make the stop....Oline is a UNIT! Center-Guard-Tackle...they have to support each other!
February 11, 2009
#58 Phil from SATX said . . .The fullback dive works because it is an unexpected play you shouldn't use every single time you're inside the 5. That's why it worked the first time in the Indy game; no one expected it. But after ReTard kept calling it time after time to the point where I could tell it was coming at home in my livingroom it stops having success. I'm not saying that Olin or Beekman did it perfectly right every time, I'm just saying that the fault for its overall level of futility throughout the year rests with future OC of Pitt (I hope).
February 11, 2009
#59 Urlacher FTW said . . .Cbears, I will defer to your point about it being a combo - you sound like you know more about line play then me (as do most people in the world). And frankly I have no idea whether Beekman is any good - I suspect he's only average (fitting for a 4th round pick, maybe?). I think a lot of those plays went to the right, so how about putting Kreutz and Garza to blame for it? I think Garza is a lot of the problem on the line re: run blocking.
I would love to have a rookie guard, if he was a massive beast who could push people. Right now we have five guys on the line who don't appear able to push anybody. I thought I saw some plays this year where Beekman got some push - but only a few.
February 11, 2009
#60 Urlacher FTW said . . .Is there anyway we can just use our pick to take OUs entire massive front 5, let's do that.
February 11, 2009
#61 Urlacher FTW said . . .Is anyone else having .. issues displaying the chicagobears homepage. I am having weird color issues and sometimes the text on the pulldowns has no background color. Other times it looks fine so I wondered if they were playing or I am having issues.
February 11, 2009
#62 Rancid said . . .Well Jeff, maybe ur next blog should discuss what you think about possibilities with some of the cuts this week. I'd be intrested in Leigh Bodden (CB) and Ahman Green (RB) two places where we need some bodies but probably won't be able to spend a high draft pick on. Adam Pacman Jones is interesting too; I really doubt he's worth the risk with all his personal issues but, I dunno he is a good cover corner.
February 11, 2009
#63 Cbears said . . .Here's an interesting article to open the FA chatter with:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=516593
February 11, 2009
I agree that the whole line is to blame. The most pressing need is an inside guy who can help root out the massive DT or combo to a linebacker.
Rancid, you also make a good point. It is designed to be an unexpected play. We overused it, with a couple of bums for fullbacks. Phil, garza is overrated by alot.
Imagine if forte had three solid inside guys, (assuming we keep olin, beek, and pick up hopefully mack, who i still think can play guard). He would run wild all over the place.
besides a facelift on the line, I want a WR. or a CB. or a saftey
the list goes on and fuckin on
February 11, 2009
Here at DaBearsBlog, you are free to kill us or the Bears as you so wish. You are not free, however, to be an asshole. So if you spew racism or ill-meaning foul language (cursing about football is just fine) or anything of that ilk, your comments ain't gonna last long, jerk.
