PFT quotes Denver Broncos owner Pat Bowlen: "I'm very disappointed...I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback."
This is a very simple post with a very simple point. Jay Cutler is a supreme talent with Chicago guts. He makes this football team better immediately. He's worth losing whatever draft picks the Broncos ask for. Right now there is an elite talent on the market at quarterback and the Bears have not had that...ever.
Make a phone call, Jerry.
ADDENDUM 2:42 AM
Cutler told Mort he requested a trade from the team. This isn't even funny anymore. Not only will you be getting a supremely talented player but a guy with a chip on his shoulder; eager to prove he's a top quarterback. PUT SOME GODDAMN EXCITEMENT INTO THE FRANCHISE!
#2 jdawg said . . .I have figured this whole disaster out. The team is ran by a 90 year old lady. The president is an accountant that never put on a helmet. The GM couldn't draft or sign a high impact offensive player if his job depended on it and the coach is one of the worst in game managers in the NFL. Now, couple all of that with the fact that the Bears haven't had a legitimate all-pro QB since WWII and that should tell everyone why this team is detined for ANOTHER 7 to 9 win season.. While the Patriots just keep adding star power to their team we add Josh Bullocks. Wow.
March 16, 2009
#3 KidronJesse said . . .Cutler has a cannon and doesn't have scrambled eggs for brains like our former QB. Is he and elite talent? I don't know. Is he a leader? Not so much.
This will be entertaining.
March 16, 2009
#4 The Ghost of Halas said . . .I am a pretty calm Bears fan. I have learned to be patient, and thankful that we aren't the Washington Redskins, or the Oakland Raiders, who constantly make "splashes" and very rarely seem to be a good team.
But, if we don't at least pursue Anquan Boldin and Jay Cutler, who are two of my favorite NFL players, and I have to deal with hoping that at pick number 18 a receiver will be available who can make a difference in his first year (which they almost never do) and ALSO I have to hope that the Bears will actually draft this player...
Nevermind, I'm too depressed to write about the Bears. It's why I haven't posted this offseason yet. It's just been the same old Bears BS that I've learned to despise.
March 16, 2009
#5 Foxtrot Tango Packers said . . .Interesting. I'm still a Kyle Orton man, myself.
BUT, Jay Cutler would give this team the offseason spark it ALWAYS lacks. Give the Chicago Bears headlines and they play better.
By the way, Phil--on that last post--David Terrell was the last Wide Reciever picked in the first round by da team.
March 16, 2009
#6 Z said . . .I really dont think the Bears are going after Cutler, or Boldin.
we should all stop dreaming
March 16, 2009
#7 Z said . . .Did Denver really have the 2nd ranked Offense last season? That is what Cutler said. He will not be attending the voluntary workout tomorrow and told his agent to formally ask for a trade.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805
Orton and a 1st and a 3rd for him? Is he worth it? Grab a 2nd round WR. Sign Pace and Holt. I saw St. Clair was 30th in the NFL in sacks allowed for a LT with 9.75, Pace gave up 2.
March 16, 2009
#8 animal said . . .Here is where I saw the sack allowed thing
March 16, 2009
#9 jeff said . . .Give Denver whatever the fuck they want. How about half of our defense? All the old dudes. All the picks. Who the fuck cares? Get Cutler.
March 16, 2009
#10 Decatur Staleys #7 said . . .that article infuriated me. get him. now.
March 16, 2009
#11 jeff said . . .Until the Bears regain an identity(shutdown defense/power run offense,etc)we are all just guessing what can fix this team.Cutler would be nice,but what is here that would make him better.Unless the Bronco's throw in Brandon Marshall.we'll all be still scratching our heads on why this team isn't getting better.
With the other teams in this division,I think with the moves that JA made he trying to get back to shutdown defense(Lovie calling plays/Rod coaching the line,An Hoke on the DB's)
An what makes me laugh is we are pining for a career back up to sign(St Clair)but we don't look to upgrade or get younger.
March 16, 2009
#12 Dr J said . . .you know what's sick? the bears could have jay cutler and torry holt. tomorrow. and they won't.
March 16, 2009
#13 Ron Turner said . . .Jeff I agree with you they can get them both but wont !! just burns me up
March 16, 2009
#14 BearDown1982 said . . .Wow...if we can get Cutler he can reunite with Earl Bennet and it would be like College all over again!! That would be a great idea. Should I bring up that point to Lovie and Jerry? Nahh, they would never go for it.
March 16, 2009
#15 Brad said . . .I bet Holt goes to a contending team like the Giants personally. Not sure why he would want to come to Chicago unless we overpay for him.
Cutler, probably not gonna happen. It depends what Denver wants for him. I guess the only good thing is that the Bears have Orton...so if he was included in a deal, he could start right away for the Broncos instead of trading Cutler and not having an option at the QB. Who are Denver's backups right now?
March 16, 2009
#16 craig said . . .Cutler said he grew up a Bears fan. He is worth the risk. Trade our number 1 if you need, but I don't even think the asking price will be that high. We could sign Torry Holt and trade for Cutler. Then we could use the draft to get better on defense.
March 16, 2009
#17 Duff Diggler said . . .Yeah, it is infuriating. Someone in the front office needs to grow some balls...
March 16, 2009
#18 Albert in Tucson said . . .This is a possible career saving move for JA. He may not think he or lovie are on the block, but turn in another shit season and see what happens....
Cutler is a BEARS FAN!!!!!!!!!!!
CHICAGO NEEDS A FRANCHISE QB!!!!!!!!!
This couldn't be more simple.
Step one: pick up the fucking phone.
Step two: give denver KO, a first, and a third...
Step three: have lovie hug him within the first 5 minutes..March 16, 2009
#19 JWilson said . . .Jay Cutler? From his recent behavior (tantrum?) in Denver isn't this just a new way to spell "DIVA" ?
I think a fair summary of that situation would be along these lines:
"Yeah, you're paying me MILLIONS but, wah, wah, wah, you don't LOVE me enough. I want to out."You think a guy with THAT attitude could thrive in Chicago under the kind of intense scrutiny that comes with being the Bears' QB?
March 16, 2009
#20 Z said . . .Fuck Bullocks! Zack Bowman getting a shot at FS. Check Da Site.
March 16, 2009
#21 Kyle said . . .The Jaguars have released wide receiver Matt Jones.
March 16, 2009
#22 Pd said . . .saw that J.Wilson, I like the idea, I seem to remember Bowman having some pretty decent speed when we drafted him.
This is just too painfully obvious to actually happen. The fact that Denver is looking for a "game manager" type like Orton makes it even more perfect and yet--not gonna happen.
March 16, 2009
#23 Tenacious D said . . .If you are the bears, and haven't had a respectable QB since forever.... dont you HAVE to make this trade? We have the cap space. We should offer Orton, a 1st or 2dn round pick in 2009 plus a conditional pick in 2010. I would rather see us trade the 18th pick than see JA waste it on a DE or WR.
We would easily have the best QB situation in the NFC north... that would be a nice change. Draft OL with your next hightest pick and our O just got ALOT better.
March 16, 2009
#24 jdawg said . . .Jeff, Josh McBelichek is on record as saying he won't trade Cutler for draft picks. What combination of players would you propose that we include in the trade? I don't believe we have anyone that we could trade straight-up.
March 16, 2009
#25 Anonymous said . . .I think the pavlovian response is to say:
Orton and our 1st round pick.
Now, hopefully McDaniels isn't taking a sip off coffee when that offer is made, because we may have to sit around for a some time until he cleans it off his shirt and blows his nose.
Its going to take a lot to get him, so start looking at adding one or more of our better players and maybe our #1 from 2010 if you're serious.
March 16, 2009
#26 Just-NFL said . . .JA and the Broncos are talking...
March 16, 2009
#27 Where in the world are the Bears WRs? said . . .Trade Devin Hester, Kyle Orton, and a #1 pick for Cutler straight up.
As much as I love Hester, Cutler has alot more value.
March 16, 2009
#28 Pd said . . .If we traded away Hester, then who will Cutler be throwing to?
March 16, 2009
#29 Anonymous said . . .What responsible NFL GM would not trade a disgruntaled player for KO, 2009 1st and 3rd plus some conditional 2010 pick (say 1 or 2 based on proformance)??
If they wont trade for that, they wont trade at all. Hester, Briggs, Harris, Urlacher, etc won't be traded... they have huge contracts... plus, outside of briggs, they havent played THAT well.
Matt Castle went for a 2009 2nd round pick and a big contract. Cutler should go for a 2009 1st & 3rd.
March 16, 2009
#30 Pankster in da carolina's said . . .The part I love about this most is that somewhere Kyle Orton is reading this and shitting himself. Fuck you, Kyle.
Bring on Cutler.
March 16, 2009
#31 jdawg said . . .Go Get That Fuckin Cutler ASAP!!!!
March 16, 2009
#32 Pd said . . .you know, I don't get the "fuck you Kyle" bit. He seems like a good guy who played OK until he got hurt and has the respect of his teammates.
Anyway, we'll see, but I suspect Denver is going to ask for the moon.
March 16, 2009
#33 jdawg said . . .I don't think of this as a 'fuck you kyle' issue. KO is the best QB on our team, and could develop into a solid NFL quarterback. But Cutler has more physical talent, he is simply a much better football player. I'm all for being loyal to your homegrown guys, but only to an extent. Why 'develop' (which is a word i'm not that comfortable using with the current bears coaching staff) KO into a decent QB when you can plug in a Pro-Bowl calibur guy? We could blow 2 or 3 more 1st round draft picks on QB's and not find a guy this talented. He could be our QB for 10 more seasons... wouldn't it be nice to have that spot taken care of for once?
March 16, 2009
#34 CA BEAR FAN said . . .I was referring to post 29
March 16, 2009
#35 It Bears Repeating said . . .KYLE ORTON! FUCK CUTLER..HE WOULD BE A WASTE! ED I AGREE WITH YOU
March 16, 2009
#36 Albert In Tucson said . . .Cutler sucks. 17-20? Orton's record is better and he's got the approval of his teammates.
The guy had one year to really try and he did well without a full camp. This team has a number of holes that need plugged, but I'm sorry, Kyle Orton is not a player than needs replaced.
March 16, 2009
#37 jdawg said . . .#29 is toally uncalled for and I cite Jeff's guidelines:
"Here at DaBearsBlog, you are free to kill us or the Bears as you so wish. You are not free, however, to be an asshole. So if you spew racism or ill-meaning foul language ..."
March 16, 2009
#38 Anonymous said . . .I think we need to take the word "sucks" out of this discussioni. Cutler doesn't suck and neither does Orton. Cutler had a shitier running game to work with and superior receivers. Orton had a great running back (although not really a great running game) and shitty receivers.
Cutler is the far sexier of the two in terms of measurables (yes -- I'll leave that sentence as is -- nothing untoward intended).
One question I don't see being asked here is: how is his diabetes going to affect the length of his career? I have no idea.
March 16, 2009
#39 zisk said . . .I am pretty confident diabetes is not an issue.
I like Orton and I feel like he is the best qb I have seen for awhile for the Bears.
However, I am a big Cutler fan and he has a tremendous arm, and I think Marshall and Royal are great and good players, but you got to think Cutler makes them even better. I am sure Cutler can make Hester better and Olsen.
I am guessing there is some upset Broncos fans right now who are now even more pissed about Shanahan leaving.
March 16, 2009
#40 Murph said . . .How do you think cutlers numbers would change with a way better running back better tight ends a worse line and way worse receivers. I kind of wonder what you all predict his stats would be with the current personal. Trading for cutler might not be a smart move but I guarantee its an exciting one.
March 16, 2009
#41 Where in the world are the Bears WRs? said . . .#35 My guess is Orton doesnt have the support of that many of his mates. When he got the nod last year there was about a 50/50 split on who should be starting, not a huge vote of confidence in my book. I think Cutler is a bit of a crybaby, but hes still alot better than we have now, at least he can complete a 35+ yard pass!
March 16, 2009
#42 Anonymous said . . .Maybe Orton can complete a 35 yard pass..... we don't know because we weren't there.
March 16, 2009
#43 Z said . . .Why does Kyle Orton always look like he is throwing into the wind?
His BEST deep route is a Pass Interference call on an under-thrown duck. That's right. His deep ball quacks.
March 16, 2009
#44 Z said . . .Well Cutler sure got all of us Offense starved Bears fans going. Good. Read he grew up a Bears fan in Indiana.
March 16, 2009
#45 do said . . .The Green Bay Packers on Monday afternoon matched the offer sheet restricted free agent Jarrett Bush signed with the Tennessee Titans. It was a 3 year deal.
Arizona has agreed to contract terms with former Browns running back Jason Wright. His contributions on special teams also made him attractive to the Cardinals.
The Seahawks' decision to sign Lions free-agent tight end John Owens indicated Seattle probably would not re-sign free-agent tight end Will Heller.
With Heller no longer in Seattle's plans, the Lions signed him Monday.
Pretty boring except Bush is a ST monster so that sucks.Would you rather get Boldin or Cutler for that 1st rounder with Orton going too for Cutler?
March 16, 2009
#46 Babootycall said . . .If this opportunity would have been available last year I would have been up for it 100% but I am not for getting Cutler especially if we have to give up our #1 pick.
We are really one WR away from having a championship caliber team. And before you laugh let me explain.
-Orton was the concensus number 1 overall pick going into his senior season and up until that injury that derailed his team so we know the guy has skills
-Great RB in the mold of Faulk or Westbrook
-Best TE tandem in the league
-Serviceable Oline (assuming Williams can start and play well at LT)
-Top 5 DT in the game when healthy and a second year player that looked like a beast last year
-A DE that makes BIG plays and hopefully a 3rd year guy that can get back into his rookie season form
-Top 5 OLB in the league right now, Top 5 MLB in the league if he can get healthy and play like he did 2 years ago
-Top 10 CB in the league when healty in Tillman and Vash can be a ball hawk if he will actually play football
-Payne can hit like a Mack truck and thats what you want out of a SS
-Bowman would have been a 1st round pick if he would have been able to finish his college career injury freeWe can fill ALL of our needs in the draft THIS YEAR. This team is much better than people are giving them credit for.
March 17, 2009
#47 jdawg said . . .hahahahahahahahahahahaha.
March 17, 2009
#48 House said . . .You know "Do", your post reminds me of Wolfowitz's testimony to congress before we hit Iraq.
Orton was not the consensus #1 pick -- he was in the running for the Heisman
Bowman was never a #1 pick
Our D was healthy last year and still sucked, oops, I mean stunk
Yeah, I'd love a DE that makes big plays, let me know when we get one.
A top 10 CB? Please point him out.
I will say that you're right about comparing Payne to a mack truck -- neither of them have arms.
March 17, 2009
#49 Murph said . . .Whoever says that we should give up Orton, a 1st and a 3rd is a plant from Denver--the rumor mill has a disgruntled Peppers going to New England for a high second round pick. But we'd have to pay a replacement QB and two picks to get a guy who has already made life miserable at his present employer?
March 17, 2009
#50 CAK said . . .Agreed.........Orton was never a consensus #1. He played exclusively in the shotgun in a spread type offense. He played like Tebow without the strength or running game, and there is doubt Tebow would be a number 1. And Do, the rest of that is a whole lotta what ifs, sure would be nice to have a pro bowl QB, would make everyone else on offense a whole lot better.
March 17, 2009
#51 CAK said . . .What's with everybody’s pessimism? I am going to say it now: we're going to the Super Bowl this year.
March 17, 2009
#52 Anonymous said . . .And on top of that, I'll say we'll win the damn thing too.
March 17, 2009
#53 Anonymous said . . .Albert in Tuscon -
Nice job ripping off Steve Rosenbloom's Diva line:
March 17, 2009
#54 big rob said . . .Albert in Tuscon -
For independent thoughts look here :
Just kidding. They wouldn't be independent now would they.
March 17, 2009
#55 Anonymous said . . .Quick thought....
If you think Cutler is pissed now, how pissed do you think KO would be getting the rug snatched out of under him and sent away?
March 17, 2009
#56 Urlacher FTW said . . .Rob - This is a contract year for Kyle. If he would have performed consistently well last year he would already have an extension in his hand. But he did not. He played poorly down the stretch. My assumption is that he came back too early after his injury because he did not want to see Grossman do well. Nothing wrong with that, other then the fact that the team suffered. (This is a coaching problem, by the way, not a problem with KO. I admire his desire to compete through the pain.)
Ultimately, I am confident that the BT is looking into this. I am also confident that the Bears will not pull the trigger if they can not get him into their mini-camp next week. This really needs to go down by the end of the week.
Wouldn't it be funny if KO was traded to Denver and then Rex was resigned in the # 2 hole behind Cutler?
March 17, 2009
#57 Vizzini said . . .Grossman, well since he's still on the market and the likes of St. Pierre and JT O'Sullivan got snatched up I think he's done.
I dunno, I do think Cutler is good and will be a perrenial top6 QB. However, I still fail to see how taking him and putting him behind an inferior Oline, with inferior wideouts, and far less opportunities to succeed (both RT and more run based); equates into an improvement. And Denver was 8-8.
March 17, 2009
#58 do said . . .Hope you like that name better Jeff.
The only way to compare outside of in the same camp is with stats. They are like mirrors and don't hide anything.
The first thing I noticed were the records. Cutler was 8-8, Orton was 9-6 last season. The Broncos had a worse defense than the Bears last season, so that needs to be considered when looking at Cutler’s record in 08.
Then I looked at individual ratings. This is where Cutler stood out from Orton. Cutler threw 25TD with 18INT, 4526 yards, a 62.3 Comp %, and a 86 RATG. Orton threw 18TDs with 12 INT, 2,972 yards, a 58.5 Comp %, and a 79.6 RATG.
Next, I averaged out the passing defense rankings that they faced in the 08 season. Cutler went against the 19.875 ranked, which is the Rams or rounded up to the 49ers. Orton saw the 16th ranked pass defense, which was the Panthers. That is a considerable difference, which when added to a pass happy offense, would explain the yardage and TDs.
The Comp % would be a difference of Orton completing 18 more passes than he did in the entire season. That’s hardly a noticeable difference to even mention.
I also wanted to take a look at the rushing ranks for each team, since a ground game makes passing easier. I didn’t break down the rush defense rankings against, just the rushing ranking. The Broncos were #12 with a 4.8 average per carry, and the Bears were #24 with a 3.9 yard average. That’s a nice luxury that Cutler has in Denver.
Then I looked at offensive line ranking. Denver’s line is ranked 13th and the Bears were 28th. This was another big advantage Cutler had over Orton. Losing Williams before the season started, along with Metcalf being out for 4 games on a suspension, didn’t help an already suspect offensive line.
The next thing I checked was WR rankings. Out of the top 50 the Broncos had two. Brandon Marshall was #7 and Eddie Royal at #23, combining for 2,245 yards. The only Bear to make the list was Devin Hester at #49 for 665 yards. Obviously Cutler had much better receivers in Denver.
Another thing I checked was the performances against the different levels of competition. So I checked against the 21-31 ranked pass defense teams (worst), and the 1-20 ranked for each QB. Against the 31, 31, 29, 28, 28, 25, 24, 23, 21st ranked defenses (9 games)Cutler threw 17TDs and 12INT. Orton faced the 27, 27, 24, 23, and 21st ranked pass defenses (5 games) throwing 4TDs and 4INT. In the 1-20 ranked teams Cutler played the 16, 14, 13, 11, 10, 10, and 4th ranked teams (7 games).During those games Cutler threw 8Tds and 6INT.
Orton played against the 19, 18, 18, 17, 16, 12, 12, 6, 4, and 3rd ranked pass defenses(10 games). In those games he 13TDs and 9INT. What this showed me was that against the stronger teams Kyle threw a slightly higher TD per game average (KO 1.3 per game and JC 1.14). Interceptions were also a little higher for Orton(.9 per game) than Cutler(.857).
What I got of this was Cutler had a better offensive line, better running game, and a better receiving group. With all that said, he had a worse record and had stats that, when researched past the superficial, seem a lot like Orton’s.
So why do the Bears need Jay Cutler? If he couldn’t make it happen in Denver what makes him the solution in Chicago? If he’s a franchise QB, why are they looking at trading him? I'm guessing that they know he won't look as good in a more balanced offense. It just doesn’t add up to me. Like I said before, this is a rebuilding season. Let Orton have his shot, if he doesn’t work out this season what did we lose?
March 17, 2009
#59 Wayne said . . .jdawg- you can not argue that Alex Brown makes a lot of big plays for a DE. Im including blocking kicks, deflecting passes, getting INT's. I could not find any stats on blocked field goals or anything for the NFL but I did find that in college he had 35.5 "Big Plays" 8 more than any other player on the team.
I disagree with you completely about the #1 overall pick for orton. He was far and away the number one QB in the nation going into his senior year. No one knew about Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers was a close 2nd.
Copy and pasted this scouting report of Bowman:
Overall: Zachary Bowman, had it not been for multiple injuries, would be in line to be a Rd 1 pick. However, with his injury history, it is going to be difficult for a team to place too much of a risk on Bowman. He does have the potential to be a NFL starter, but a team must be very careful when they select him.
Follow this link to see what McShay says about the guy.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/news/story?id=2595538
Our D WAS NOT healthy last year. The only players on the team that were healthy were the 2 DEs, Briggs, Urlacher and Payne. Tillman, Vasher, Harris, DustyD, Harrison, HH, Brown, and Graham were all hurt. So half of our D being hurt means they were healthy?? Would love to hear your reason for thinking that.
Tillman is a very, very good CB. Top 10 maybe, top 20 for sure. So I will not bother arguing about top 10 but he is for sure top 20. Which is still pretty good.
March 17, 2009
#60 zisk said . . .Whoever Vizzini is, you got me.
March 17, 2009
#61 Phil from SATX said . . .Excellent post vizzini. Just about the only factor you didn't address is still pretty significant. While denver did have a much more robust run game, it wasn't because of the running backs. Do you have stats on denver receiving out of the backfield. Cutler didn't have the low risk safety throws available to him. I'm willing to wager Forte, Peterson and Wolfe are all better receivers than any of denver's runners were.
March 17, 2009
#62 jdawg said . . .Vizzini, excellent analysis and breakdown. There are two huge things that stand out there - comparative analysis on offensive lines and WRs. We had close to the worst offensive line in football (apparently statistically) and definitely the worst receiving corps (by my non-lying eyes). What Orton accomplished with those two huge anchors hanging around his neck was nothing short of miraculous when you think about it. Cutler is the obvious choice on paper because of arm and pedigree. Vizzini just did an excellent job of showing us what Orton accomplished with much less - and we already know the dude is tough as nails, playing through that injury even though it hurt his performance after injury. Give a healthy Kyle a line and some receivers and watch the wins start to pile up. I'm an Orton supporter but I was thinking the same thing about Cutler - throw the kitchen sink in to get him - and that analysis changed my mind.
Do, you did a nice job in defense of your post as well.
Line and receivers! Let's make THAT happen! Let's stand up behind our man Kyle Orton!
March 17, 2009
#63 Foxtrot Tango Packers said . . .Do -- those are a lot of "ifs".
March 17, 2009
#64 Decatur Staleys #7 said . . .Here's another "if"
what IF Cutler ends up in Detroit??
March 17, 2009
#65 zisk said . . .For those of you waiting for the great St Clair to return,Here is what going on.(Bears an money never really go together)
According to the Cleveland Plain Dealer, St. Clair, an unrestricted free agent, met with the Browns and took a physical Monday.
The Bears have offered St. Clair a three-year contract reportedly worth $4 million, far from what St. Clair expected. The Bears' plan was to start St. Clair at right tackle, with John Tait now retired.
St. Clair would have less competition for the starting job with the Bears than the Browns. The Bears enter Tuesday with only two tackles: first-round pick Chris Williams and practice-squad member Cody Balough.
An Also this too
Coach Lovie Smith said free-agent signee Frank Omiyale would start mini-camp at left guard but didn't rule out a switch down the road.
Safety help: With Kevin Payne sidelined, Craig Steltz will line up with the first team at strong safety Tuesday. Newly signed Josh Bullocks will be the first-team free safety. The Bears also have moved cornerback Zack Bowman to free safety and invited safety Curome Cox in for a tryout.
March 17, 2009
#66 zisk said . . .If cutler couldn't bring the broncos to the playoffs he sure as hell isn't going with the lions
March 17, 2009
#67 jdawg said . . .Bowman could probably be awesome as a free safety. It seems general consensus before the draft was he had first round talent but undrafted free agent injury concern. We all liked what we saw out of him but I didn't like him getting hurt. I'm still very optimistic considering it was his arm (not as important in a D back as it is in QB, RB, FB, OL, DL) and not his knees, which Mike Brown can attest to really sucking.
March 17, 2009
#68 Urlacher FTW said . . .Strange the Omiyale starts at LG. I guess they like Garza better than Beekman even though Beekman is a lot younger and could get a lot better. Garza is what he is.
March 17, 2009
#69 Urlacher FTW said . . .jdawg I don't think it's a dislike of Beekman, I think he is the encumbent to supplant Kreutz at Center and versatile enough to be used at guard. I am pretty sure they will hold onto Beekman regardless, and it is only the first couple days of camp, I'm sure there will be a few more moves. I just really hope we grab Loadholt in the draft, guy is a tank.
I like Bowman to FS, especially after watching the videos of Buttocks. If Bowman and Payne are our encumbents though, kinda scary to have both safeties be injury prone and comin off IR to start the season; oh wait no that's status quo.
Great post Vizz, I tried to argue the same thing a week ago and got torn to shreds for it. Another thing about Cutler is in all actuality Denver was 7-9, as Hoculi made one of the worst calls in NFL history to overturn a fumble at the end of the Denver SD game, which rightfully should have ended with Cutler's fumble recovered by a SD defender. So they were actually sub 500 without ref interference.
March 17, 2009
#70 Urlacher FTW said . . .Oh and 2 things that do kinda bug me.
1.) Can we stop referring to Cutler as a Pro-Bowl QB? He has been to Hawaii once, it isn't the hall of fame, one trip doesn't mean your among the greatest to ever play; after 5 or 6 more, then you can call him that. I mean Garcia has been to 2 and noone is even signing him.
2.) The record predictions need to stop also, I mean if you wanna say we'll win the division or we will miss the playoffs, fine. But to say oh I know they are going 6-10 or 10-6, that's just silly. I mean even the "experts" just knew going into 08 that Dallas and San Diego would be playing in the Super Bowl, SD squeaked into the playoffs and big D didn't even make it that far. Then they knew going into the playoffs that no one could really compete with Tennessee, the Giants, and Carolina; none of them won a playoff game.. I mean come-on no one knows shit, it's why they actually play the games.
March 17, 2009
#71 Murph said . . .Jeff, why wouldn't we; in our situation.. go sign Orlando Pace?
March 17, 2009
#72 MattIsMyForte said . . .Geez FTW earlier you said Cutler would be a perennial top 5 or 6 QB, now your irked by people saying pro bowl QB......thats usually where the top six go........to the pro bowl. And if we aren't all here predicting records and draft choices and trades, what the hell are we doin here? Im also guessing Grossman isnt through, those guys signed as strictly backups, I think he's holding out for a chance to compete to start.
March 17, 2009
#73 Vizzini said . . .It pisses me off to hear about Zack Bowman moving to Safety and people are excited about it! Is this what they consider an upgrade from Mike Brown? They let him go partially due to the lack of confidence in his health. This kid has had two serious knee injuries and that nasty arm injury last year (in his first game). What a joke, what a disservice to a great Bear. I completely understand the concerns with Mr. Brown's injuries, but his level of knowledge and leadership and loyalty to the team warranted a negotiation to keep him within the organization in some capacity. The Bullocks guy is LESS than impressive and Bowman is a "rookie" Steltz is no 6-1 210 (as he is listed) either. It seemed that last year during many points in the season, Mr. Brown was THE ONLY player on the defense playing with fire, passion and intensity. Still pissed. I was just starting to get over the T. Jones cast-off, now I've got to try & wrap my head around this, and it sucks. WE HAVE NOT UPGRADED THE SAFETY POSITION!! Only let go of one of the best Bears in recent history. Sad.
March 17, 2009
#74 Vizzini said . . .Zisk- Since you said that I lloked it up. It's deceiving in that the Broncos had so many RB playing last season. Combined they had 43 receptions for 413 yeards at 9.6 avg. Forte had more recptions 63 for 477 yards and a 7.6 avg.
So to me that reads that Orton had to check the ball down more, not that it wasn't an option. Having 2 WR combine to break the 2,000 yard mark usually means that you don't have to dump off to the RB too often.One more thing to add, Olsen 54rec for 574 yards, Clark 41rec for 367yards. Scheffler 40 rec 645 yards, and Graham 32 rec for 389 yards. Just so nobody tries to say we have better TE.
March 17, 2009
#75 Decatur Staleys #7 said . . .Totally off topic, I just got banned from the Bears forum board, lol. This is what they left me. "You have been banned from posting on the forums until 02-28-2161 12:55 PM. The reason for this ban is Other. "
I just want to say how much I appreciate this site. People can come here and can disagree without the excessive personal insults that are on some other forums. Also if you don't agree with some one you don't get banned for multiple life spans lol.March 17, 2009
#76 Urlacher FTW said . . .Vizzini your welcome here anytime. Thx for taking the time to do the stat work.
March 17, 2009
#77 The Ghost of Halas said . . .Murph - I said I think he will be .. a perennial top 5 or 6 yes, but that doesn't mean he is right now. And I don't think he'll be a consistent top 2 or 3 QB which is what Denver is shopping him like. I think if he stays in Denver, he could be another Favre (high-risk, high-reward) type of passer with great years mixed with years h struggles. I do think however that f he is traded to a team like Detroit or Chicago, he would struggle more often and be sent along much like a Jeff Garcia type.
I guess after all the stats, I am still waiting for someone to answer my very first question about that move; if Cutler couldn't take the Broncos to a winning season in 2 years as a starter, how is going to come here with less talent at WR and O-line and a run based Offense and do any better?
We simply have too many other absolute voids to fill. Talking about upgrading the QB in Chicago is like arguing about replacing a working toilet with a newer one when you don't have any plumbing or walls in the bathroom. Fix the Oline, get a damn WR, get an actual FS who can play, find a DE who knows what the QB looks like; then we can talk about replacing the QB.
And you think Grossman is holding out? Other than Minnesota, name me one team where he could start? Leftwich and Garcia would both be signed as starters before him, his QB rating has been in steady decline since the 06 campaign and that's not saying a lot. He better take the first backup offer that comes along and thank God he'll get to steal some free money from another team riding the pine. Thank goodness that worthless sack of crap is gone from this team.
March 17, 2009
#78 Murph said . . .I think I would start for the Detroit Lions before Jay Cutler would.
Teams where Grossman could start immediately: Detroit Lions, New York Jets, and Minnesota (soon to be L.A.) Vikings. I think he'll get picked up. Not by Minnesota, though.
And speaking of the Vikings moving to L.A., I heard a debate on the radio where the concensus was that if that were to happen, the Rams and Vikings would switch places in their divisions. The Vikings would join the NFC West and the Rams the NFC North. Could be interesting in the future.
March 17, 2009
#79 Reality Check said . . .FTW...tell us what ya really think about Rex........LOL. I think he could start in SF, Tampa,Detroit, Buffalo, and he never played a full year after 06...but right now he aint got nothin to do with the Bears so its a moot point discussing him. I dont think Denvers line talent wise was any better than the Bears, I hink a QB making good decisions and getting rid of the ball and being able to run, makes the line look better than they are. We had a rookie back put upsome good numbers this year and the line has to get some credit for that. Yeah we have a lot of voids, but I think Cutler would make some of our talent look a lot better. I cant believe Im talkin this guy up, I think hes an asshole but he sure plays better than what we have.
March 17, 2009
#80 CAK said . . .What happened to the Kyle Orton fan club?? All you KO backers are bailing out on him now, I bet he is crying in his sleep. Oh, by the way, THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Sorry, but the LIONS, yes, the LIONS will trade all of their picks for this guy. I guess you will all have to go back and love KO and that stupid neck beard. Oh and at least Cleveland has some receivers that are worth throwing to. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!!
March 17, 2009
#81 CAK said . . .We can win a Super Bowl with Orton as Bears QB. We made it to one with Grossman.... (yeah there differnet kinds of players blah blah blah)
March 17, 2009
#82 CAK said . . .Whoops, "they're" not "there".
March 17, 2009
#83 Vizzini said . . .http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2009/03/st_clair_bolts_for_browns.html
March 17, 2009
#84 cbears said . . .Anybody know where I can find the deep pass % ?
Losing St.Clair is the best news I've heard all offseason. Now I don't have to worry if they intend to start him at RT. They will have to get serious about drafting one. Which means better running and pass blocking!
March 17, 2009
#85 cbears said . . .thanks for that cak... well now forget cutler we are fucked with the line. Looks like we need to draft OT or put frankie baby over at right tackle and let beekman play guard again.
March 17, 2009
#86 The Ghost of Halas said . . .or pace, I can see him having a few good seasons with us
March 17, 2009
#87 Anonymous said . . .Well, I think the loss of John St. Clair is a huge loss to the locker room. He is not a tremendous talent and sure as shit isn't worth $9 million. But he showed heart...something that nobody else on O-Line did much of last season. He held his own agains the best pass-rushers in the league. Now the most trusted talent at Tackle on the entire team is Chris Williams. 2009 Chicago Bears: 5-11.
But who cares what I think.
March 17, 2009
#88 Idonije said . . .BTW - To say that you start filling holes in your line-up by neglecting the most important position on the field is simply not rational.
Each position in this league feeds off of each other. A great TE will increase yards per carry. A great running game keeps your D fresh. A great QB keeps the chains moving. And the list goes on and on. This is applicable to Special Teams and a Coaching Staff as well.
A football game is chess - not checkers. The QB is the Queen. The coaching staff is the mind moving the pieces, and the positions were you believe we have holes are a few pawns and a rook. We need a QB. This is especially true with the dimwits we have coaching this club. The talent over the past few years has not vanished. The coaching staff is predictable, and KO has very real limitations. Limitations that take away our alleged strength (running the ball), and limits the skill set of the other players around him (anyone with speed to stretch the field is limited by a guy who can not deliver with any consistency at all). How many times did he under throw a receiver last year? How many times did we end up moving the chains on some bogus pass interference call?
You get a QB first, and build your team around him. If you make a mistake with a guy you move on. Short term solutions at this position pan out once a decade. Sticking with mediocre makes you mediocre.
To make your plumbing analogy accurate, think of the QB as the water. It takes all of the shit, cleans up all of the dirt, and one of a very few things you absolutely need every day of your life. Unfortunately, the Coaching Staff the the hand that chooses the temperature. We want hot, and they deliver luke fucking warm.
March 18, 2009
#89 MattIsMyForte said . . .Great post anonymous. I think you summed up a lot of Bears fans' feelings with that post.
Well done.
March 18, 2009
#90 Phil from SATX said . . .#87 All of that fluff and you you end with saying that the coaching staff is "the hand that chooses the temperature"? If you believe that any one on the coaching staff has a say in what players we persue and eventually sign you just completely discredited yourself with that one comment.
I think you are right about the QB being the most important position on the field. I don't agree that trading valuable draft picks and current [impact] players in order to bring in a good but far from great QB is the best move for this team. Jay may be better than KO. But is he that much better? Did he make the playoffs? (& don't tell me about the pro-bowl. save it) It sounds like people just think he would be able to come to Chi and have another pro-bowl year or immediately fix our age old QB nightmare. Fat chance. There is a lot to consider with a QB entering a new system with a new playbook and new personell. Not going to happen! So build a bridge and get over it. KO is the starter. The guy does have "real" limitation. So does every QB. He will work on his deep ball and more importantly, TIMING with receivers. Which was something that was lacking with the revolving door at starting WR last year.
Our offense was not the biggest problem last year. Period. The offense put us in position to win at least 4 more games. 13-3. If the defense did not shit the bed last year we'd have easily won the division and more...Bears
March 18, 2009
#91 John St. Clair's Ass said . . .Well I personally am happy for St. Clair, he deserves the good money for his effort this past year, and I do think the Bears should have made a better effort, they obviously weren't close to market on him (although not sure how much attention he was getting outside of the Browns). BUT, on the good side, as the banned Vizzini mentions, this means that they have to get serious about either signing or drafting a tackle. I'm thinking Pace may be a serious option for them - they need a veteran, don't want to go with bookend rookies, even first rounders.
Jdawg, I too found it extremely interesting that they were slating Omi as a tackle - but I now wonder if that plan just flew out the window with St. Clair gone. I was hoping for Williams and St. Clair on the ends, Omi and a newly drafted guard on the inside, and Beekman replacing the worn out Kreutz for an essentially all-new line. Now we're probably looking at Williams and Omi at tackle, and maybe Buenning and a new draftee guard or Beekman, and Kreutz or Beekman at center.
But St. Clair, as much as I admired his effort, was really just the tallest midget on the Bears line last year. (Okay obviously that's an overstatement, but you get where I'm going).
March 18, 2009
#92 jdawg said . . .9 Million Dollars???
Wooooooo Boyyyy!!!!
Do you have any idea how much Brown's chicken that'll buy us?!?!?!?!
March 18, 2009
#93 Urlacher FTW said . . .I don't see Kruetz going anywhere but the starting line up this season.
March 18, 2009
#94 Murph said . . .Murph - Ill give you Tampa, that could happen and maybe the Jets, but a definate who you crappin' on Buffalo... Grossman can't carry Edwards jock and TO sure as hell ain't puttin up with Grossman.
/paste post #89 hereYah Matt those are pretty much my thoughts.
The only thing I would disagree a little on is being able to single out any position on the field as "most" important. I think it is much more group oriented than that. An absolute powerhouse QB alone without a good wideout and at least an adequate running game is worthless (see Miami Dolphins with Dan Marino or Denver with Elway until they got Terrell Davis). I mean people thought Jimmy Johnson was nuts "wasting" all those picks on Offensive Linemen, til he had a dynasty.
Look yah there is always going to be the Tom Brady argument and I think he could probably win a superbowl with Rasheid Davis and David Terrel as his WRs and Cedric Benson at RB; but he is a special case. But Cutler is no Tom Brady, he isn't so great that he makes everyone around him better. The proof as they say is in the pudding, Cutler has a losing record as a starter and hasn't started for a team with a winning season since high school. That's what you want to trade the farm for?
March 18, 2009
#95 Urlacher FTW said . . .FTW Except for rushing yards the stats are similar, except Edwards fumbled more than Rex. So I think he could definitely carry his jock.....LMAO. All said FTW Rex can play, but us harsh and fickel Bear fans have gotten in his head, hell just look how this blog has turned on Orten once Cutler has become available. I think Rex is better than that slug starting for the Redskins too.
Agree that we need help on the line, gawd i hate they gave up on Columbo just as he was turning the corner, right tackle would be locked up for the forseeable future.March 18, 2009
#96 Albert in Tucson said . . .Murph- Edwards posted an 85 QB rating in his first season as the starter, much Higher than Rex's best season. Edwards completion percentage is 10% higher than Rex has ever thrown. Come on Rex has actually posted a 0 QB rating in a game he actuall started and threw the ball and another one of like 10, WTF; who would take that?
Jason Campbell? You think Rex is better than Campbell, even though Campbell's career QB rating is higher than any one season of Rex's and Jason has thrown more TDs than Rex while throwing only 2/3 as many INTs.. what are you basing QB skill on, amount of stupid down field shots some one takes per game, cuz then yah Rex has him beat.
I don't think anyone is turning on Orton, of course people are going to support a guy if he is the only option.. and with him and Grossman, Orton was our only option. Now you are seeing him compared to a franchise player for another team and people like the other option better, if Grossman was in Denver and Cutler was the one fighting for a spot in Chi I don't think there ever would have been support for Orton because we'd have had another choice.
Personally I think Orton is good enough to get the job done. I don't think he is great but I think he will be above average, top 10 - 12 and if they can fix the Oline and Defense; that will be good enough for our style of football. Fixing the Oline and Defense are not options if we trade away all our draft picks to moderately upgrade one position where we are already in a decent situation. I guess I am really just for whatever moves make the Bears better regardless of any one player and how I feel about them.
March 18, 2009
#97 Vizzini said . . .Let's face it, there's a deep recession and the Bears see that as an excuse to just sit back and vegetate. St.Clair won't remind anybody of Dan Dierdorf or Anthony Munoz but, just like last year, we now have NOBODY starting at right tackle. Most of you will recall that last year at this time, when they only had John Tait as a viable starter at OT, the Bears sat idly by and passed on 50+ free agent linemen. The beat goes on, gang. I have been watching the Bears for longer than most of you have been alive. Mike Ditka put it succintly in 1967 during a contract squabble that ended up with the Bears dealing "Iron Mike" to Philadelphia: "He (George Halas) throws nickels around like they were manhole covers."Apparently, THAT Halas Legacy continues. By they way, I believe that may have been the deal that landed the Bears the late QB, Jack Concannon.
March 18, 2009
#98 zisk said . . .#95 well said
We needed a starting RT with or without St. Clair. He is a back up OT not a starter. He was supposed to be a LG and was just filling in. Why do people want to pay him so much $$. We still have a back up(Omiyale) who if plays like scouted is better than St. Clair.
March 18, 2009
#99 DTB said . . .Not happy about losing st clair. Why is it every offseason I feal like jerry is trying to draw an inside strait.
March 18, 2009
#100 Babootycall said . . .It's crazy to see folks clamoring for John St. Clair. Absolutely nuts! The team was seven points away from the playoffs a year ago with a roster that most concidered inferior. That included that O-Line. He is nothing more than an, 'as needed' offensive lineman. Why can't we get excited at the opportunity to draft a RT and go with him from day one? When we do that, you are looking at a young offense with the ability to run together for years. Cohesion and progression are two completely different things. Reality is that by losing St. Clair, we lose cohesion but in no way is the offense's progression stunted. In fact, drafting a RT and plugging him in automatically presses the Bears offense into improvement mode. St. Clair would have provided familiarity and nothing more.
March 18, 2009
#101 MattIsMyForte said . . .Great post #87. MattIsMyForte you're right... I'm sure JA would never consult with Lovie about potential players. No that would never happen (Adam Archuleta). And Jay IS that much better than KO. Simply put, if Cutler was out QB last year we would have made the playoffs irrespective of all the other factors you mention that go into QB play. And thirdly "valuable" draft picks don't really apply to the Bears with JA at the helm. How many first day picks has this idiot blown. Not only that but they spent a lot of guaranteed money on these blown picks (Benson, Haynes, Columbo, etc). I would take a proven commodity such as Cutler anyday over another potentially expensive disaster. And as for "impact" players, I beleive the Bears don't have to worry about that either. I'm pretty sure their 3 "impact" players in Forte, Olsen, and Briggs are not involved in the discussion. I agree that offense is not our biggest problem and that the defense repeatedly shat the bed last year, but by improving our offense by upgrading the QB position significantly with Cutler we will definitely have more diapers on hand to mitigate some of the damage.
March 18, 2009
Cutler wouldn't make all the other shit go away. Period. He's not the answer and that is a good thing, because there is no way this deal will happen. So theres no use getting all worked up about such a trade. We will use our 18th pick and all of us fans will have to hold our colective breath and wait to see if the trend continues. That reminds me, bringing up old shit and whining about the past draft disappointments is about as productive as arguing about a trade that will never happen. Life is short, make better use of the time you have. Bears.
March 18, 2009
Here at DaBearsBlog, you are free to kill us or the Bears as you so wish. You are not free, however, to be an asshole. So if you spew racism or ill-meaning foul language (cursing about football is just fine) or anything of that ilk, your comments ain't gonna last long, jerk.